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1951 Riviera Trim

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Prairiedog
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1951 Riviera Trim

Post by Prairiedog » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:33 pm

I'm working on my 51 Riviera and was wondering about a tear drop shaped stainless steel plate under the fuel cap and stern light socket. I've only seen one other boat with this on and the serial number is only 8 off from mine R-18-450 and both came from Maine. Could it be something the dealer added? Is it factory? Any Ideas? I have the build sheet from the Mariners museum and nothing is mentioned.
Thanks!
Imagehttp://www.antiqueboatamerica.com/uploa ... jpg5%2Ejpg

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JohnKadimik
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Post by JohnKadimik » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:51 am

Have not seen that before.

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Post by dreed » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:45 am

Nothing like that on my 53 Riv.
1953 CC Riviera 18-R-927

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Post by Trick414 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:56 pm

I've got a '51... R-18-526.

I didn't have anything on mine that looked like that.

I also didn't have anything on the wood that would suggest that I ever had anything like that.

However, the top deck might have been replaced (pretty sure it has) in the past.

It's actually pretty cool.

Can you get an electronic template made up so it can be duplicated?


**** Edit... I'll have to check my Mariner's Museum info, but my boat originally went to somewhere in the NE around Maine as well.

**** Edit #2... Did that go on top of the top deck, or underneath as some sort of support?
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Reginald Down
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Post by Reginald Down » Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:58 pm

As a Riviera owner, I have been researching / documenting the Riviera model for seven years and never seen anything like this before.

But it would certainly be fun to learn more about it's origin for future reference.
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Post by Prairiedog » Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:23 pm

Reginald Down wrote:As a Riviera owner, I have been researching / documenting the Riviera model for seven years and never seen anything like this before.

But it would certainly be fun to learn more about it's origin for future reference.
I don't know if I could figure out how to do a electronic template but if you want to PM me your address I'll trace it out and mail it to you.

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Post by Prairiedog » Fri Jan 13, 2012 7:24 pm

Reginald Down wrote:As a Riviera owner, I have been researching / documenting the Riviera model for seven years and never seen anything like this before.

But it would certainly be fun to learn more about it's origin for future reference.
It goes on top of the deck under the trim ring for the fuel cap and under the light socket. I found one on a boat for sale at this link about the 3rd or 4th picture. http://www.antiqueboatamerica.com/uploads

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Post by Prairiedog » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:23 pm

I noticed I have 4 holes under the trim piece and the fuel tank is forward of the light socket.

I've found another Riviera with the trim piece like mine it is in the "Boats.com" sight. It is a 1951 Riviera for sale in Gilford, NH they show the rear of the boat in the center picture.

Any thoughts?


Image

Trick414
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Post by Trick414 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:41 pm

Prairie,


I've been meaning to reply.

I had the same question, although undoubtably someone will come along and explain the difference...

Here's the pic I think you were talking about, or at least one similar:

Image



Here's a pic of mine:




Image


Interesting..

Can you get some pics of the fuel tank sitting that far forward?

I'll get one of mine and post it.

You can see the saddle here:


Image
Last edited by Trick414 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Reginald Down
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Post by Reginald Down » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:47 pm

Here is the link to the listing on the Boat.com site and a photo of the 1951 Riviera hardware that Prairiedog is referring to. Is this some type of dealer installed hardware piece?

http://www.boats.com/boat-details/Chris ... /117641741

Image
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Chad Durren
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Post by Chad Durren » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:26 pm

I wonder if it was a factory cover-up for an incorrectly drilled hole in the deck. The boats being so close in production makes you wonder.
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Brian Robinson
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Post by Brian Robinson » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:44 pm

I think Chad is on to something here...

Obviously they moved the fuel tank location at some point forward early on.

I wonder if this plate was used to retrofit hulls in stock that already had the holes drilled for the aft fuel tank location?

We recently finished a '54 18' Riv #1108 thad had the forward fuel tank. It was as far forward as possible sitting on two 4"x4" logs (original).
-Brian
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Reginald Down
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Post by Reginald Down » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:55 pm

I just had a look through all my original Chris-Craft drawings of the 18' Riviera from the Mariners' Museum.

The drawings show the fuel tank filler forward (directly behind the engine hatch opening) and also further back (center), between the stern pole and lifting ring.

On one of the drawings, Chris-Craft also refers to a 16ga stainless steel trim plate (as shown in the earlier photos above) where the fuel tank filler is forward.

To complicate things further, I also have an original drawing from Chris-Craft that shows where the engineers shifted the center of the fuel tank off center on the stringers towards port. In this drawing you can see where the drafting department made the change and you can still see where the original 1950 drawing shows the tank centered on the stringers.

In the next few days, I'll scan the drawing details and post them to explain. So, it appears that the trim piece is possibly an original item.
Last edited by Reginald Down on Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Trick414 » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:50 pm

Reginald Down wrote: To complicate things further, I also have an original drawing from Chris-Craft that shows where the engineers shifted the center of the fuel tank off center on the stringers towards port. In this drawing you can see where the drafting department made the change and you can still see where the original 1950 drawing shows the tank centered on the stringers.
My tank was off-center a few inches...


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Reginald Down
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Post by Reginald Down » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:19 am

Thanks Rick - So based on the photo, your 1951 (526) had a center mounted fuel filler tube and Prairiedogs 1951 (450) had a forward mounted filler tube (if I am reading all this right). Which makes me think that possibly the change (for whatever reason) was made somewhere between those two production numbers in 1951.

Do you have any idea why they would have off-set the fuel tank to port... possibly to make for more room on the starboard side of the tank?

Here's a photo from 2004 of the factory original aft deck planks on my 1952 18' Riviera (739) which shows the fuel filler tube forward.

Image
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Chad Durren
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Post by Chad Durren » Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:05 am

Maybe to offset it's attitude in the water.. to counter the rotation of the engine, or drivers weight on the starboard side?
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Reginald Down
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Post by Reginald Down » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:03 am

Here are some photos which I hope can be used for purposes of discussion in regards to the mystery trim piece and fuel tank filler tube location for the 1950-54 18' Riviera.

As with most research such as this, I only have limited information as to the authenticity / originality of the restorations of the 18' Rivieras shown below, however I was able to document some of the hull numbers & years of production.

Also, I have included a few photographs of original Chris-Craft plans for the early 18' Riviera model, which I have obtained from the Mariners' Museum / Chris-Craft archives. These photos are for discussion purposes, and I would encourage anyone who owns or is restoring an 18' Riviera to order a full size set of drawings from the Mariners' Museum for future reference.

Prior to this topic being posted, I was not aware that this stainless steel trim piece was used for any of the Riviera models from the factory, or how / why it was installed. This also raises the question of where the fuel tank filler tube is located on the Riviera models, and if it was relocated during the production run.

The following photos were taken from the from the Chris-Craft Antique Boat Club archive, the first from a 1950 Fleet Brochure which shows the fuel filler located between the stern pole and lifting ring. No indication of the trim piece. It should also be noted that this photo may have been taken in 1949 with possibly a pre-production Riviera to be included in the 1950 brochure.

Image

The next photo is another stock Chris-Craft photo, this time from a 1954 Fleet Brochure which shows the fuel filler in the same location. I think that the stock photos were mostly all early factory photos that Chris-Craft used for the entire production run from 1950 up to 1954. Early Riviera photos represent the wider deck seam spacing which is also a mystery to be discussed / solved in another thread.

Image

Here is a photo of the original Chris-Craft 18' Riviera line drawings from the Mariners' Museum, which also shows the fuel filler tube in the same location as the above stock factory photos, between the stern pole and lifting ring.

Image

In the same package of 18' Riviera line drawings from the Mariners' Museum, was this drawing, which shows the fuel tank installed forward, locating the fuel filler tube directly behind the engine hatch. I have two different drawings of this, one which which shows the tank slightly higher in the cradle.

Image

This original line drawing indicates that a 16 ga stainless steel trim plate was to be installed, and in this drawing, the fuel filler tube is located forward directly behind the engine hatch. The question is, was this trim piece originally intended to be to be installed under the deck for support rather than on the top deck planks?

Also notice on the line drawing, the width (spacing) of the live / dead seams on the aft deck planks which we think was limited to the early Rivieras and changed during production to the narrow seam spacing (one dead seam per plank vs two dead seams per plank on the later production decks) in either late 1950 or early 1951. This also needs to be confirmed by a qualified restorer.

Image

This photo shows the proposed location of the fuel tank, slightly off-set to starboard, not to port as I originally thought. This should be confirmed if possible. (If I am reading the drawing correctly) I do have a drawing which I obtained from another visit to the Mariners' Museum which shows the change that the engineers at Chris-Craft made to off-set the fuel tank, which was originally designed to be centered on the stringers.

Image

"Take Time" is an early 1950 18' Riviera (084) which shows the fuel filler located between the stern pole and lifting ring. This photo was taken in Portland in 2009. (Note the wide deck seam spacing)

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"Moonstruck" is also an early 1950 18' Riviera (243) which shows the fuel filler located forward. This photo was taken at the Lake Tahoe Concours in 2009. (Note the narrow deck seams spacing)

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"Cote d Azure" is a later 1954 18' Riviera (835) which shows the fuel filler located forward. This photo was taken at Flathead Lake, Montana in 2011.

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Below is an original unrestored 1954 Riviera 18' which also shows the fuel tank filler forward.

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It would be fun to hear from the experts here, as well as other Riviera owners on this subject, (as I am a rookie on the subject), to see if we can gain some more knowledge as a group. A good winter project!
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steve bunda
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Trim plate

Post by steve bunda » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:31 am

Trim Plate Drawing, If the trim plate was intended to be under the deck , the drawing would be a dashed line for that item.Also a flat plate wold not sit well under the deck with a frame member in the way. Possibly the gas tank was moved to the star board side for more clearence for the exhaust pipe? Nice documentation! thanks, steve

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Reginald Down
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Post by Reginald Down » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:43 am

Thanks Steve - Over all the years and probably 30 or 40 boat shows, I have never seen one of these trim plates on a Riviera. Very unusual...
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Post by Prairiedog » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:07 pm

So does that mean mine is more valuable??? :lol:

Kind of like a double stamped coin??? :D

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Post by dreed » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:48 pm

What length is your boat? I am wondering if this unique to just 16' Riviera's.
1953 CC Riviera 18-R-927

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Post by Prairiedog » Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:14 pm

It's an 18' Ser # R-18-450. The ones I've seen on the net with the stainless steel trim are all 18s also.

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Reginald Down
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Post by Reginald Down » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:33 pm

Just today there is a photo of an 18' Riviera on Woody Boater.com that was on display at the Milwaukee Boat Show with a center mounted fuel filler.

So it would be interesting to see if it's an early (1950-51) Riviera. Here's the link...

(Update January 26, 2012 - Jim Staib from Fine Wood Boats confirmed that this 18' Riviera is in fact an earlier production version - R-18-372.)

http://woodyboater.com/classic-boat-sho ... milwaukee/
Last edited by Reginald Down on Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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JohnKadimik
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Post by JohnKadimik » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:22 pm

I have worked on over a dozen Rivieras and I have never seen that trim piece. It must be rare. On the subject of the off center gas tank, I have seen it on other models and always thought it was to counter the weight of the exhaust manifold hanging off the side of the engine. Just my guess. Here are some pics of some of those Rivs.
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Reginald Down
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Post by Reginald Down » Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:42 pm

Thanks for posting these photos John, they are great! Thank goodness for scanners... Looks like you had a few real "gems" to work on over the years.

Your thoughts about why the fuel tank was off-set makes sense.

Notice in the photos both the center mounted and forward mounted fuel tank / filler tube.

Also interesting to see in the first and last photos the (early) wide deck seam spacing (five vs seven).
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