Riva Ariston Restoration, a journal

[Don Ayers]

Riva…”it’s just an old plywood boat”. Well in fact that statement is not all together true. Many years ago I often admired the style of Riva boats but they seemed such a mystery and a foreign subject that I kept my distance. Always I envied that beautiful wrap-around windshield and the unmistakable barreled transom that was the ultimate of refined style.

My interest got the best of me back in 2005 when I bit the bullet and purchased a Super Florida model. Only then did I fully appreciate the statement above I had heard so many times are various shows.

Van Dam, now that’s a name no one would argue with being know as one of the best custom builders in the world. But long before Van Dam was building his boats Carlo Riva had figured it out and was way ahead of his time regarding wood construction techniques. You see what Carlo Riva wanted to do was build a modern day boat back in the late 1950’s. I’m talking cold-mold construction with multiple layers of thin full thickness mahogany bonded together to form a solid panel. This would produce a skin structure that was stronger than planks and would not be affected by seasonal variations in moisture. He even took it several steps farther to develop this new construction into his assembly line. He took the lessons from Chris Craft and made it better. Developing huge press machines he was able to cold-mold entire hull side panels and bottoms using Resorcinol glue with triple layers resulting in a final thickness of 10mm to 12mm. As you might image this is extremely strong construction and is the method of some of the finest builders of custom boats today. Granted, modern epoxy products are better glue but Riva used the best materials offered at the time.

I recently bought a Riva Ariston to work on and after much evaluation I have decided to restore the boat. One of the first things I wanted was to fully understand the construction of the hull sides and all the other “armored laminate” used. From this picture you can see the inner two layers running opposite of each other and then the final top layer running bow to stern. The sides of an Ariston were originally 10mm thick with the inner layers at 3mm and the outer at 4mm. It’s no wonder that Riva’s are very strong boats.

I’d like to take the mystery and myth out of Riva’s so others can understand more about this breed. For those who would like to follow I’ll be starting a thread of this Ariston restoration journey. It’s going to be exciting for me as this is the first time I’ve ever had a boat restored by someone else.

I’ve taken a dose of my own medicine and I can assure you it’s another world when you’re on the other side of the check book.

Hope you enjoy and I hope to help others at the same time.

Happy Boating

Don

[Don Ayers]

Riva's are still MADE OF WOOD!!! and you know what wood can look like after 50 years.

Many of us on this forum take calls or request for advise of what to do about a new boat project. "Can't I save this or I should be able to save that. Or the ever popular, "the bottom still looks good".

The common response I have to people is to go into the project assuming the worst and be happy if you can really save anything. Most don't want to hear that or simply ignore it and hope the fluff and buff will be enough.

I have come to the conclusion that if an old wood boat has an original bottom, it needs a new one with very few exceptions!!!!

So back to my story. I foolishly ignored this notion and thought this jewel of a boat with its original bottom could be saved and used. How misguided I was.

Polyester resin glass is a killer!!!

Folks if you got a bunch of glass on the bottom of your original boat there are demons lurking in the depths. Especially if there is any on the inside as well.

It's a system stupid, I keep reminding myself. Wood breaths and glass does not. Put wood in between two layers of glass and you have the perfect rot sandwich!

So the first lesson here is that I should have known better when I saw the boat. My bad and I'm over it but perhaps someone else can learn from this.

If you are going to buy a boat don't get all caught up in the emotion and fall into the don't ask don't tell trap. Demand a close inspection, make the sellers really open the thing up and most important assume the worst and negotiate based on the worst assumption.


Here we see a three frame section that is completely rotten under the glass repair done many years ago. And you guessed it...the keel was toast as well. And to think I had been lifting the boat by this main point. I was lucky it did not pull through.

Riva's are pretty unique boats for their era and being so they require special materials and talents to bring them back to factory new. I always knew this from the beginning but dammit I just wanted one so all that future stuff didn't matter.

As I have explained the construction is different than a typical Chris Craft and I have come to respect it a great deal for not only its strength but beauty. Carlo Riva greatly admired Chris Craft for their ability to mass produce boats but he also saw the inherent flaws in the construction. Also he noted the heavy investment in the way CC did things and their inability to change quickly or venture out into new construction methods. From what I've read when CC wanted to do something different they just bought another company, Roamer, Thompson and the like.

Carlo wanted to solve the problem of wood movement and leaky bottoms so he began to experiment. Being a small business he looked for ways to differentiate his boats not only from a style standpoint but a construction one as well. At the time no one was making marine plywood to the standard we wanted so he teamed up with a guy who had helped develop aircraft ply for planes in WWII (Mr Lodi). He thought if they can make this stuff for planes and different shapes then surly it can be done for boats. This is what eventually came to be the three layer "Armored Laminate" which comprised full-thickness wood of the highest quality bonded and heat pressed with Resorcinol glue.


Side of an Aquarama

[rdapron]

Wow, I don’t think I have ever seen a wooden runabout with the inside of the bilge fiberglassed. What a pain it must have been to glass the inside of the bilge – tucking in the matt against those frames and all. Wonder what they were thinking. I assume that the bottom (outside) was glassed also? From the pictures it looks like your sides are in fairly good condition. That is a good thing on a Riva, messing with the sides on a Riva can get costly in a hurry. Putting a new bottom on is not that different from that of a Chris. It will be a choir getting all that glass out of the bilge so things can be disassembled to be used as patterns. In the big picture you are going to have a very nice boat – with a new and tight bottom to boot. It is just going to require more work and dollars than originally thought. Good luck and keep us posted.
rob

[Don Ayers]

Journal Continuation

So there I am at the crossroads wanting to have my treasure restored, knowing the unique construction is beyond me and faced with a rotten bottom to boot!!!

The die is cast; the decision made so the natural question is who will it be that brings my treasure back to reality? Choosing to have a “professional” restoration done is the first hurdle but the “who” is where the rubber meets the road. Honestly, I’ve talked with many people over my 20 years in the hobby and have heard a number of nightmare stories about “professionals”. I came to believe that there were few true professionals in this small niche hobby. Don’t get me wrong, there are a few one man shops that do some great work but when you think about it, this hobby is really a small cottage industry. It’s another ball game when you start thinking about forking over thousands and thousands of dollars.

Due to the fact Riva’s are special construction and unlike our American produced boats I had to quickly narrow my list of potential restoration shops. I think you could apply these basic principles to any restoration choice but here goes.

1. Experience in a particular job or model of boat. Check out what a certain shop has done in a similar restoration. What was the outcome or outcomes? Does this shop have a core competency in the work you seek?
2. Does this shop have a good business model? I think what this means to me is do they operate like a real business e.g. are they turning jobs around quick enough to demonstrate solvency? To me this says a lot about wither or not a business is going to last i.e. if someone can’t produce a detailed contract for the work to be done or properly invoice you, beware.
3. Are they really producing results in a timely manner? I’ve come to the conclusion that some shops in this business just don’t work that hard. I think it is very important to do your homework on a shop and see what the output is and compare quality. There is something to be said for having work done in a timely manner and with a sense of urgency about the job. Also why would it be unreasonable to expect quality workmanship along with timely work? I believe you have to look for the best of both. For example, maybe there is a shop that produces an unbelievable product but a five year time frame is not what you had in mind. Or the other end of the spectrum is a shop that turns something around so quickly, and cheaply, the quality and workmanship is substandard. I think how you can combat these issues is to talk to as many people as possible especially former customers.

One very important point to remember is that nobody and I mean nobody is perfect both professionally and personally. You have to remember we are all human here and mistakes and misunderstandings are going to happen, just get ready for it and minimize the risk. At the end of the day you have to make a choice about an individual and if you want to do business with them. Ask yourself these questions, does this person have my best interest at heart? Has this person shown they do what they say even when it does not benefit them? Does this person act with humility and respect? Do I like and trust this individual wholeheartedly and finally has this person demonstrated high moral character to others they have done business with?

Based on these personal criteria I narrowed my search down to two “professional” shops. Both are outstanding individuals and clearly in my view have and can meet the three basic requirements. Certainly there are others out there and my personal experiences are limited. No one has experience with everyone but also keep in mind I have specific and unique challenges. For example if I had the means and desire to have a custom designed one-of-a-kind might I be more inclined to talk to contemporary builders such as Van Dam or Mayea and the like…
So who did I end up choosing??
Drum roll please….
Based on all my thought processes I chose Greg (Rudy) Rudloff of Northwest Classic Boats in Auburn, CA for my Riva Ariston restoration.

http://www.northwestclassicboats.com/


Stay tuned for the next installment and I would like to hear any comments about my three restoration shop criteria.

[JohnKadimik]

Best of luck to you Rudy !

[Don Vogt]

You couldn't have made a better choice, Don. I have known Dave Lobb and Rudy Of Northwest Classic Boats for more than 25 years. They are imho at the top of boat restoration in this country. I wouldn't trust my boat work to anyone else. If you want it absolutely correct and properly done, they are the ones. And the result will be a boat of stunning beauty. I would add to your list of qualities the most important one, integrity. You can completely rely on what they tell you.

Keep us posted on your progress.

[Don Ayers]

The Negotiation:
The next phase of this little adventure revolves around all those little pesky details and particular all the one you forget. Negotiating for a contract can be a bit stressful for an owner I’m finding and certainly I have a newfound respect for those who have gone through this process. The real key here is the stress one puts on themselves worrying about every little detail rather than trusting in the fact that your restorer has met all the criteria previously posted. It’s easy to forget all that trust when you’re talking money and to quote my wife, “we never joke about money, honey”. I kept finding myself drilling down into the simplest details asking, “Is he going to do this or has he accounted for that or how is he going to do this?” You can drive yourself crazy doing that and at some point you just have to trust that all the little detail is going to be OK.
The important part of this exercise is to cover your bases on the major stuff. It’s one thing to encounter an overage here or there for say less than a $1,000 but to encounter a major problem after the boat is already in the shop is something altogether to avoid.
When faced with a major restoration or even significant work one should always assume and contract for the worst case scenario. How often have we heard stories about a project that gets opened up and is much worse than expected. To avoid this you have to expect the worst and then explore what the worst is going to cost, all the while being prepared to spend the entire amount. My experience with Rudy so far has been positive aside from my nervousness about all the little details.
Once I discovered all the rotten areas in the bottom due to the fiberglass Rudy lead me down the worst case scenario because his experience has taught him that usually everything has to go anyway. This is a wise course of action as I did not want any surprises. When it comes to bottoms and structure Rudy prefers to replace with new solid wood. Basically my quote was for total bottom replacement which included all frames, knees, keel, chines, etc.
Knowing the worst case helped me understand (and my wife) the full financial impact without any major surprises in the future. I feel much better, after the initial sticker shock, I won’t have to go back to my wife and chance the story mid way through. Of course I still worry about the little things but that will all work out as long as I keep the communication up.
Next Phase;
Getting the boat 1,900 miles to Rudy was not really as bad as I feared thanks to John Freeman, boat hauling extraordinaire. As luck would have it another boat needed to be hauled to the general area and I was able to coordinate both boats. John is a real pro and has been doing this stuff for many years. Late September came and John showed up with a 24’ Penski truck which we loaded full. We backed the boat with the worst trailer inside the truck along with all the items such as the 24’ Sapele wood and all the necessary hardware items for the restoration. The Riva trailer was serviced and ready for the trip so all we had to do was secure the boat and hook up. Off went John with my adventure.

[Don Ayers]

Secrets Revealed:
Starting the first week of October Rudy kicked in the afterburner on our project. First order of business was flip and strip!! Clearly professional shops have all the right equipment to make short work of flipping a boat. When people know what they are doing they just get after it and Rudy went to town on the bottom. Even he had not seen a boat with so much glass on the bottom. In some places the glass was more than ½” thick, crazy! Knowing we were replacing everything Rudy used various effective methods to get it all off. As he expected and told me the glass was really not stuck to the bottom so it came off in large sheets. Once the glass was off, the boat started giving up some secrets, like the GIANT section of damage that had been patched over. Clearly the boat had hit something very solid which might have been the reason for the glass. That had to leak some when it hit that rock…
With the bottom panels off the boat looked like any other 50+ year old original wooden hull i.e. oil soaked and compromised framing and structure. Time to secure the shape and start replacing frames, keel and chines etc. All wood is Sapele.

[Don Ayers]

Throughout November progress has proceed well and now the hull has all new frames, stem, keel and chines. The boat then went upright so that Rudy could address the topsides and deck. All deck frames were removed and repaired or replaced and then went back in with epoxy. We found that whatever crash that had happened in the past also damaged the dash frame and the sheer. The dash had been cracked in two and the sheer was broken in two places. When this was discovered Rudy gave me a call and sent pictures. We discussed his recommendations and agreed to an additional work order for a new dash and sheer repair/replacement. This experience was not a bad one because Rudy had already calculated how many hours of work it was and we easily negotiated the final additional price. Again, it sure helps when someone tells you what something is and sticks to it. Look for that quality in the restorers you deal with.
At this point Rudy preceded and finished all structural work on the hull by early December. So far so good!!

[James]

Don -
Isn't it great that your restorer gets to have all the fun? Always nice to see the boat being 'recreated' before your eyes. Kudos to Rudy & Dave for good photo documentation too.

All that's left for you the boat owner is to worry about all those details, which as you say, the restorer has already thought about and dreamed up a solution for, and to keep your checkbook at the ready......LOL!

Have you speculated on how the boat got so 'broken' in its past? Did it get dropped; or hit the dock 'con brio'?

James

[Don Ayers]

It don't know how it got damaged but I'm glad I was not in it at the time. It was originally delivered to Poole England in 1959. I have the history from 1975 on when it was brought to America.

More updates in a few.

[Don Ayers]

During December Rudy packed up the wood for the sides, deck and transom and sent it off to the mill. It takes a special place to resaw this material and sand down to 4mm. At the end of the month the wood came back ready to start the side process which is a triple cold mold layer.

[Don Ayers]

Flash forward to the second week of Jan 2011. Rudy has the first two inner layers done and now has the boat prepped for hull sides.
At this point I very much wanted to be involved with the final wood layout and selection as once it goes on it isn't coming off.
Earlier in the story I mentioned that I was able to acquire my own wood for the project and like a box of chocolates, you never know what you will get when you slice a board up. In my case Rudy was very wise to have my “extra” board sliced so that we would have plenty to choose from. That decision proved to be very accurate on his part. When my Sapele wood came back it had more defects than we anticipated. Rudy had to make the call and tell me the bad news. Although I was a bit disappointed I was optimistic we could make it work. Rudy asked that I travel to CA and help him select the material before the project moved forward. This I appreciated very much as I wanted to have a hand in something regarding the final look of the boat. My mission was to have the new wood look as it did when new. My good friend Marty Feletto picked me up from the airport. After getting to Northwest Classic Boats Rudy and I spent six hours carefully laying out the planking patterns on the wood slices. We took great care to select the wood in such a way as to keep it book matched and eliminate the defects. At the end of the day I was satisfied with the results. I mean c’mon, it’s a tree for heaven sake and not something that just ran off a digital printer. I think the boat will have great character and be beautiful. Kudos to Rudy for making me come out and involving me in that way!!!
With final hull sides, transom, king plank etc selected Rudy when to town. All I can say is that he has a lot of experience with this type of construction because before I knew it he had the new wood on!
Next week he will start the bottom, Yeah!!!

[tph]

Don,
Superior work, looks great.
tom
vintage marine

[jfrprops]

Gee Don, I was not aware of this thread. I read every word and look forward to more..what a wonderful job! Great shop setup too.
Congrats!

John in Va.

[Don Ayers]

Just for fun I thought I would post some Riva factory pics from 1960. I will try to get them in order of manufacture.



Wood Selection was incredible.






Three layer "armored laminate" sides being carried in to install.



Keel and stem. The Stem was seven layers laminated.


Frames not screwed but rather rivets

















With sides installed the boat is then flipped for the bottom install.











Sides faired and deck sanded









Stain and varnish




Engine install








Testing of Chris Craft 430







Final varnish before final assembly.






Back in the factory after water test to fit all hardware etc. Riva did all their own plating and put on a thickness 3 times the industry.






Lastly was interior and final fit etc.

[jfrprops]

Don,

Truely INCREDIBLE pixs! What a process, what a factory, those were the days!

John in Va.

[Reginald Down]

WOW! How cool is that. Thanks Don for sharing these photos with us.

[Don Ayers]

Update on the Ariston resto.

Rudy has completed the bottom as it was originally done by the factory. The bottom was done in three sections. The forward section is seven thin layers laminated together to make the difficult compound curves. Then you have two aft sections scarfed together.

Next everything is faired in and Rudy then puts down a high strength multidirectional glass cloth called Nytex. More fairing and then paint.

The boat is now back upright and next week we are on to new cover boards and deck.

[Don Ayers]

Another Forest Gump moment...(box of chocolates)

So Rudy calls me with some unpleasant news. It seems that the board for the front Cover Boards looked fine after it was resawn but when he went to shape it down a knot raised it ugly head.

Not just a small one but one that ran across the grain. Well i was pretty bummed out as we discussed several unsatisfying ways to fix the problem.

I had no extra boards left so I had to go to plan B. All I can say is thank God for good friends. Clay Thompson and Dan Diehl both bought wood from the same tree. Long story short is that they let me get another board from their pile. Moto, Buy long my friends.

I shipped the board to CA and Rudy says it is going to work great. Hope to post pics of the cover boards on soon.

Boat is back upright, bungs in, hull long boarded with 80 grit and new spray rails made and fitted.

[jfrprops]

What a great display of fine workmanship...great thread.
..days to Dora!
John in Va

[Don Ayers]

Update:

The replacement coverboards were a success! Rudy proceeded with installing the CB's all the way around.

On to the deck material. Original construction of the deck was three layers of mahogany with the top layer (for my boat) Kaya (sometimes spelled Khaya). Total thickness is 10mm

Kaya comes from the African coast and is literaly translated to "I don't know". That's comforting to know that the people cutting down the trees did not have a name for the wood. Anyway, Kaya is a lighter wood in color and a different grain structure than the Sapele.

The inlay on the deck is spruce. Rudy builds the deck using the vaccum bag method and then installs the inlay.

Thank you once again to Dan Diehl and Clay Thompson!


New cover boards

[Mark Christensen]

Don, how long is the boat? Great writeup btw!



Mark

[Don Ayers]

Mark;

Great question.

Ariston's changed length over the years from 1953 to 1974. 6.25M to 6.95M

That is 20.5 ft to 22.8 ft.

1958-1961 they were 6.47M or 21.2 Ft. Because of the various lengths throughout the years most people here in the US just call them at 22'

[Don Ayers]

Update;



As I have mentioned before I get weekly updates and pictures from Rudy on our project. This week Rudy basically finished out the back deck and hatches. I don't fully understand how he does the inlay but i can only image the pucker factor is around 9.9 when doing it. There is no room for error what so ever.

At this point I have to share the story of the Riva dash laminate. The belief is that this material came from the US originally. Up till now an original replacement has not been available. So starts another story of having to make something nobody has. First i was able to get an original sample. Step two was finding a manufacturer to work with. As luck would have it Wilsonart out of Temple TX has a custom design department that can make small quantities. Step three was the graphic work. This proved to be a tall order but I finally found a pro that was up to the challenge, Bill Basler. It was costly but worth it to do it right.

We got the stuff on order and now we have to wait for it as the front deck can not be installed until the dash is covered.

More updates soon.

[jfrprops]

great pic and story as usual....
I really like seeing the shop in the background...neat place.
I really like the old chair with the foam pad duct taped to the seat. I have the sistership to that chair her in my shop!!
John in Va.

[Don Ayers]

Update.

We finally got the dash laminate into the shop this morning. Rudy was all prepped for the application and it was installed today. Alan Weinstein in Florida will be the world supplier for the replacement dash material. A big thank you to him for helping and agreeing to stock it.

With the dash material installed Rudy can now more on to the front deck and king plank.

I think we are looking at stain and seal in a couple of weeks.

Will post some pics this weekend

Thanks for reading

[Don Ayers]

Well I about soiled myself when I got the pictures of the last week or so of work. First was getting the new dash laminate on and cutting the holes out. The dash had to go on before the deck could be put down. Next the king plank and then the deck panels.
There have been a number of research items for this project one of them being the correct stain. When I started a asking around I found the typical responses that were not really based on evidence. It seems many just use the standard CC stain color while others have actually used an imported stain from Italy. As I have mentioned Rudy is restoring an early 1961 Ariston. His boat was in very bad shape but still retained some original stain/varnish. I started digging through my parts and found several different items that still had the original stain/varnish. We started comparing these samples with another boat of the same vintage and found them to be a match. Based on this original evidence we decided to pursue a new stain to match. Hard to describe but the effect of the original look is more of a furniture look where the pores of the wood are filled black and the color is a deeper more brownist red. Under the front seat is a pull out drawer and mine still had all the original finish. On the bottom it had been stained but never varnished. This gave us a look at how the original stain appeared. The bottom was not sanded very fine so it took pretty dark. Also we need to consider 50 years of age. At any rate Rudy is working up us a brew that should be on the boat soon.

Thanks for reading.

[Don Ayers]

Clearly Rudy is a professional but there have been a few things i felt I could tackle at home. I finished the ceiling panels and they are ready for sand and stain. I took apart the tank saddle, cleaned, stripped, repaired, painted and reassembled. Same with the battery box. Then my next sub-project is to remake the floor boards and other various parts in the interior. The original floor was a pine/spruce edge glued together to get the width. I’m replicating them as original. First part of this operation was to edge glue them and clamp. I’ve got to thank Jim Blake of The Woodshop for teaching me how to do this properly. There are two important steps here, first is a good joint and second is proper clamping. The stock I have is thicker than the final 5/8” so I will have the pieces surface sanded at a local mill.

[Don Ayers]

Well, today is the big day. I've traveled out to California to see the project.

One of the milestones of the project was putting the stain on the boat and I asked Rudy if I could come out and help put it on when ready. That day has come.

I got into Sacramento late Thursday night and could hardly sleep.

In just a few hours the boat will have stain on it. I will post some pics.

Thanks