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Source for 2 3/4" X .050 copper

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Tightline5
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Source for 2 3/4" X .050 copper

Post by Tightline5 » Tue May 20, 2008 6:10 pm

I now have complete info on the copper source for 2 3/4" X .050.
Canadian Copper & Brass
Concorde Ontario
1-(800) 845-1134 or 1 (905) 738-0301
Jane ext. 236

12' length's (sold only, will cut into) $340.00

Jane is the very nice lady I spoke to , and I told her I would post this info on our web site.

It would be nice to hear from thoses in need of this pipe. I now have a source for the pipe but the only Co. that I have found in the US that is proficient at bending this pipe is Woolf Aircraft Products in Romulus MI.. There charge for machine set-up is $400.00 and then the time to bend, appox. $500.00 total. I spoke to Gary at Woolf. He said if there were say ten people that needed that size pipe bent (2 3/4") no matter what the degree, the cost could be brought down to $100.00 or less per pipe. We could purchase the pipe in Canda, they will ship it to Woolf, Woolf will bend all pipe at once to individual spec's and ship each pipe out to differant locations. We would have to all make contact with a central person, I feel to coordinate this , but I am willing to put $550.00 into two pipes (total cost) but not 1200.00 plus. I can try to coordinate this if there is enought interest, or if someone else would like to I will participate. If anyone has someone who can bend this pipe much cheaper please let me know!!!! I can't get my Outlook Express to work so you can IM me at [email protected] or call (434) 847-7541. My pipe is for the D-17 a 1957 Deluxe Custom double cockpit forward. Pipe is appox 53" long 15" on short leg of bend , bend is 68 degrees, 9.5 outside radius, appox. 7.5 inside radius.
Phil Jones

1948 US Plywood Executive Runabout Hull #1 "WeldWood"
1954 Racing Runabout R-496
1957 Deluxe Runabout D-17-2062
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drrot
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Post by drrot » Tue May 20, 2008 6:46 pm

Phil,
If I remember correctly there was a place in California that could anneal the pipe and someone close could bend it.
Any idea what shipping, duty, and customs brokerage would add to the cost?
JIM

Tightline5
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shipping copper pipe

Post by Tightline5 » Tue May 20, 2008 9:28 pm

Jim to ship from B&C in Ontario to my door in Lynchburg, Va. customs tax etc was an additional $100.oo and you are a lot closer than I am, so I would think it would be less. I am open to any suggestions for a bender but I know Woolf will make it purfect. Copper & Brass have over 200 12' pc. in stock so should be enought to go around.
Phil Jones

1948 US Plywood Executive Runabout Hull #1 "WeldWood"
1954 Racing Runabout R-496
1957 Deluxe Runabout D-17-2062
"MISBEHAVIN"

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Don Ayers
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Post by Don Ayers » Tue May 20, 2008 10:12 pm

Guys;

SF Tube in CA can bend the pipe no problem (around $100). This is the source I have used and sent people for years. My source there already has a pattern for the 1939-41 19' Barrel back pipe and can do others if he has a pattern. What we need is the pipe. I'll spread the word as well. I know several who are in need of the pipe for barrel backs.

Thanks for the help and info.
Don Ayers
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Post by tph » Wed May 21, 2008 7:19 am

Phil,
I'm in for a pipe or two.
tom
vintage marine

Tightline5
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pipe

Post by Tightline5 » Wed May 21, 2008 7:59 am

Don is there anyone person I should speak to as SF Tube?? Does my pipe sound simular to the ones on the 39-41 Barrel's, if the bends are the same angle I can request leg length without shipping my old pipe to them. Does the pipe have to be annealed before they get it or will they do everything.

Tom I will contact SF Tube and get back with you. What type boat do you have.
Phil Jones

1948 US Plywood Executive Runabout Hull #1 "WeldWood"
1954 Racing Runabout R-496
1957 Deluxe Runabout D-17-2062
"MISBEHAVIN"

Tightline5
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pipe

Post by Tightline5 » Wed May 21, 2008 8:14 am

Don there are several tube benders in SF what is the name of the Co. and do you have a #.
Thank you
Phil Jones

1948 US Plywood Executive Runabout Hull #1 "WeldWood"
1954 Racing Runabout R-496
1957 Deluxe Runabout D-17-2062
"MISBEHAVIN"

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drrot
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Post by drrot » Wed May 21, 2008 11:47 am

Phil,
When you get a final price let us know.
JIM

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Mark Christensen
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Post by Mark Christensen » Wed May 21, 2008 11:54 am

I would be very interested!
Mark

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Post by Jon Kaufman » Wed May 21, 2008 12:23 pm

Phil,
Put my name on the list.
Jon

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Don Ayers
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Post by Don Ayers » Wed May 21, 2008 2:59 pm

Guys;

It is Ray at SF tube. See the link. I just got off the phone with him to give him a heads up. He knows his stuff and is going to send me the drawings that he has on file. He said that they do usually put some heat on the tube as they are bending.

First things first...lets get some of this material down to him and check it out. A 12' tube will make two pipes so some of you need to pair up if you got the same needs.

Also spread the word to the restorers so they can get some future stock as well.

http://www.sfpipentube.com/
Don Ayers
1959 Riva Ariston
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Tightline5
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2 3/4 Copper Pipe

Post by Tightline5 » Wed May 21, 2008 4:35 pm

Don thanks for the info, I spoke with Ray and he will be, back in touch in a day or two. He said one pipe is @10. but volume could reduce that cost, but shipping will boost that final cost up.

Jim, Jon, Tom, Mark, and I, that is five. surely there are five more people on the east coast that would like a pipe. You guy's need to let us know. 8-10 people and it would be cheaper to have it done at Woolf, that would really lower our shipping cost. I'm in for one 12' pc. If I know how much we all want and a description of the pipe ( one, two, or three bends) we may be able to get a better price in bulk from Jane at C&B, as well as the bender. We could have one person coordinate on the East Coast and one on the West Coast.
Jim will you want any pipe bent or are you looking for just the raw strait length's of pipe?
Regards
Phil Jones

1948 US Plywood Executive Runabout Hull #1 "WeldWood"
1954 Racing Runabout R-496
1957 Deluxe Runabout D-17-2062
"MISBEHAVIN"

Tightline5
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2 3/4 copper

Post by Tightline5 » Wed May 21, 2008 4:38 pm

Don don't know what happened on last post with price, ment to type cost as $210.00 to bend as SF.
Phil Jones

1948 US Plywood Executive Runabout Hull #1 "WeldWood"
1954 Racing Runabout R-496
1957 Deluxe Runabout D-17-2062
"MISBEHAVIN"

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Don Danenberg
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Post by Don Danenberg » Wed May 21, 2008 7:21 pm

Phil,
You da man!

If your .050" x 2-3/4" (old-stock of the inexpensive drain material that Chris-Craft used) is correct; I can add 4 to 8 to your list.

Other bending options occur, though I have heard naught but the best about Romulus, as follows:

Dave, The bending is easier than finding the right sized pipe in copper. Stainless works in Chagrin Falls has done excellent bending of copper but they need the exact angles from a drawing or sample. Certain sizes of pipe are available, but length is also a concern if it is over 6 feet. You will need the diameters, id & 0d as well as length, then maybe we can come up with a source for the copper. Gil

I have access to at least one, flawed surface, original, for a '39 barrelback for a pattern, I have patterns as well.

I'll purchase one stick, and two bendings, for the shelf, myself.

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Don Danenberg
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Post by Don Danenberg » Wed May 21, 2008 7:40 pm

Just so you know what Chris-Craft paid for these parts;
This is for the '42, 17' Special runabout.

Anybody have pattern #E-41-51 ?
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Tightline5
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2 3/4 Copper pipe

Post by Tightline5 » Wed May 21, 2008 8:52 pm

Don: all I can say is that I have had four conversations with Jane at C&B and I am sure that they have 200 pc. 12' long 2 3/4" od X .050 wall thickness copper tubing in stock. The measurement's are what they are no matter what country you are in, and I asked, they use imperial measurments. I have searched all of US and web other country's. I found this by sheer dumb luck, but my wife said I have more than I am suppose to. How else would you explain being brand new to old CC in March 1 of 2007 and two weeks later finding a 1957 ( semi barrel) just like the one on ebay I IM you to check out in a barn for an imbarrasing low low price. An this was not a grey boat. Ive got you on my list to contact as we get more people involved, at this rate I hope it won't take long. I have the old surface flawed pipe for my 17' runabout that I can send to duplicate, one problem is for now I need more detail from each person as to how much pipe and how they need it bent. This procces will have to get very detailed and we will need a lot of coordination, but the savings could be worth it.
Regards
Phil Jones

1948 US Plywood Executive Runabout Hull #1 "WeldWood"
1954 Racing Runabout R-496
1957 Deluxe Runabout D-17-2062
"MISBEHAVIN"

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Mark Christensen
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Post by Mark Christensen » Thu May 22, 2008 12:09 pm

Anything I can do to help organize? I don't want this opportunity to pass us by.
Mark

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Don Ayers
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Post by Don Ayers » Thu May 22, 2008 1:46 pm

Phil;

Thanks for all the work on this. Ray at SF Tube has a detailed drawing for the pipe used in a number of boats. This particular pipe has three bends and was used with the single piece manifolds (1725 & 1935) and 45 degree down to port elbow. (1775)

For example this would include the 1939-41 19' Customs with M engine (single piece manifold), the 1940-42 17' Barrel with KB engine (not K, 2 1/2"), 16' race with KB engine, and more.

When CC went with the two piece manifold and the "to port" elbow they used a different pipe i.e. the two bends in the aft end were not needed just the 45 degree at the elbow end.

I have all the research documents for all exhaust pipe data for every pipe they made and every boat. What I can do over the weekend is correlate that information with pipe bending numbers and we can see which boat used which pipe.

What the MM does not have is the actual drawing of the pipes. That never made it to the MM. So we have to collect and document original pipes to determine what bends to replicate.

Let me work on it as there is a bunch of paperwork on the subject and I have not ever gone through it with such detail in mind.

Hope this helps.

PS. Please indicate Don A. or Don D. so we can keep track of who you are talking about.

Thanks
Don Ayers
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Tightline5
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2 3/4 " pipe

Post by Tightline5 » Thu May 22, 2008 1:49 pm

Mark; I will wait till we have 8-10 people ( we have 6) then I will have them give me info as to how much pipe they want and how much of that they want bent, then I will need to know what type boat and what bend configuration. I hope a lot of us will have close to the same bend pattern. I have a pattern for Post War 17" Runabout 1957, but are earlier 48 and up simular to mine???? I would hope when people respond they would enclose a discription of what they want bent, that would really help even in the early stage. Don't worry I don't think they would sell out 200 Pc. that quickly. Send me your info.
Regards
Phil Jones

1948 US Plywood Executive Runabout Hull #1 "WeldWood"
1954 Racing Runabout R-496
1957 Deluxe Runabout D-17-2062
"MISBEHAVIN"

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exhaust pipe

Post by glennwd » Fri May 23, 2008 2:14 pm

I have need for a replacement pipe for my 1957 Sportsman with KFL engine. The old pipe is off and ready to send as a pattern. I live in South Carolina. Just let me know when to send it, where, and the total amount. Thank you for your help. William Glenn email [email protected] cell 803 707-1298.

Tightline5
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2 3/4 pipe

Post by Tightline5 » Fri May 23, 2008 3:35 pm

Don A: Thank you, that info will be very helpful.

Glenn you are on my list I will keep you informed. You are # 8 two more to go.
Phil Jones

1948 US Plywood Executive Runabout Hull #1 "WeldWood"
1954 Racing Runabout R-496
1957 Deluxe Runabout D-17-2062
"MISBEHAVIN"

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Don Ayers
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Post by Don Ayers » Fri May 23, 2008 5:20 pm

Do you have Mike Lang and Dan Nelson on the list??
Don Ayers
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Tightline5
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2 3/4 Copper pipe

Post by Tightline5 » Fri May 23, 2008 9:59 pm

Don I do now, hve them IM me with all there info, and I will keep them informed. I will mak contact with evry one over the next three-four days and I hope we can get the ball rollig.Thanks for all the imput and for Bil B. alowwing us to post this on this site
Phil Jones

1948 US Plywood Executive Runabout Hull #1 "WeldWood"
1954 Racing Runabout R-496
1957 Deluxe Runabout D-17-2062
"MISBEHAVIN"

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Don Danenberg
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Post by Don Danenberg » Fri May 23, 2008 11:12 pm

DonA,

Please coordinate this.

I have nine (9), 19-barrelback bends booked (Mike Lang said two, he almost bought the African, zinc, version).

I am awaiting answers from others.

We need to consider 2-1/2" if possible. There are many K's out there, including my KA.
I know, another setup charge; But maybe another discount?

Joe Morrison tells me that this was refridgeration tubing. Might there be other sources?

Phil, who is accepting $$deposits?

DonD

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Post by THE RAZZ » Sat May 24, 2008 4:16 am

Don D.
re the parts list- exhaust pipe: pin/ Br.rod/ 3/16"/ 3"
What is this "pin" used for and where is it located?-

Don A.
Remember- my shop is 2 blocks from SF Tube and the original Razz 2 1/2" pipe can be delivered to Ray as a pattern free.

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steve bunda
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2 3/4

Post by steve bunda » Sat May 24, 2008 8:50 am

Phil, please add a bent pipe for a 19 foot 1939 Barrel that is in my shop . I may also take a straight length for future stock. thanks,steve

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Don Ayers
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Post by Don Ayers » Sat May 24, 2008 11:07 am

Razz;

The pin in the end of the pipe is so that the pipe can not slip out of the collar. See pics


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Don Ayers
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Tightline5
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2 3/4 pipe

Post by Tightline5 » Sat May 24, 2008 10:07 pm

Guy's I will send out an IM to everyone late Sunday or Monday morning requesting details to coordinate this week. Just got home tonight.
Regards
Phil Jones

1948 US Plywood Executive Runabout Hull #1 "WeldWood"
1954 Racing Runabout R-496
1957 Deluxe Runabout D-17-2062
"MISBEHAVIN"

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Don Ayers
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Post by Don Ayers » Sun May 25, 2008 4:16 pm

Gang;

Just so we are on the same page as it relates to the information I have posted.

In the earlier engine series CC used a one-piece intake and exhaust manifold. Attached to the manifold was an elbow (1775) that went to port but also twisted at a 45 degree angle at the same time. This twist puts the pipe at a lower point in the bilge of the boat. As a result the pipe is too low to come out the transom above the water line. In order for it to come out at the right spot it needs two more bends, one to bring it back up to the water line and the other to make it parallel. See pic number 1.

Now in the middle of 1941 production the "M" series went to a two-piece manifold and then used the elbow (1740) that only went to port and not down at a 45 degree angle. Since it did not point down it is high enough to run straight back out of the transom above the water line. See pic 2.

As far as the "K" series, that used 2 1/2" pipe....The elbow on the "K" goes to port and points down at a 45 as well and therefore requires similar bends as the "M" 2 3/4". See Pic 3

When it comes to the "KB" set up that engine used a two-piece manifold set up and CC used the 1740 elbow (to Port) and the 2 3/4" pipe. See pic 4

OK...So what Ray at SF Tube can do is bend a pipe with the three bends (pic 1) with out a pattern that will fit several boat configurations. Also Ray can make pipe number 2 because the first bend at the elbow end is the same as pipe 1. So this will work with many boats. 2 1/2" pipe is available from McMaster Carr all day long and Ray and bend that as well.

I'm pretty sure Ray would work with us for a volume discount on the bending if we asked. I don't have the need for any pipes at the moment so I am not trying to coordinate anything. Just putting information out there on what I and many others have done in the past. I have not experience with the folks at Romulus but I’m sure they do good work.

Hope this helps.



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Don Ayers
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Don Ayers
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Post by Don Ayers » Sun May 25, 2008 4:20 pm

Here is one more pic of an "M" with single-piece manifold and 45 degree elbow.
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