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Question about my windlass

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debiby
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Question about my windlass

Post by debiby » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:50 pm

My windlass works fine but there is no anchor rope in it. I have opened it up and it has two pullies and an idler pully that puts pressure on the rope. I went to the boat shop down the rode to get rope for it and he says it needs rope with chane laced into it. There is still about 6 feet of rope in the rollers and no chain. He says my anchor won't set without a chain but I don't see anyplace for a chain to run thru my windlass and don't want to screw it up. Any advice would help I have never used a windlass before so have no idea how to set it up. Will the chain go thru it ok or are the old ones just designed for rope only?
Dan Biby
38' Challenger "DreamOn"

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Capn Taz
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Post by Capn Taz » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:02 pm

Chain is always a good idea to ensure a better set on an anchor, but you can set one without. It will take a bit longer rhode to do it though. The chain helps the rhode lay down and get a better purchase to have the anchor set.

That doesn't help the question on the windlass, but if you are not able to run chain through it, you should still be ok as long as you are aware that you may need more rhode to make for an easier anchor set.
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming 'WOW What a Ride!'"

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Doug P
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Post by Doug P » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:35 pm

Ground tackle...good explanation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv3_8a7N_aE

BTW, there is only one rope on most boats....who can tell me....for a free lunch

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Post by cenger » Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:38 pm

Boats use line not rope! chain does help set the anchor and will go through the windless.
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JohnKadimik
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Post by JohnKadimik » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:49 pm

A rope becomes a line when it is givin a purpose.

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Captain Nemo
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Post by Captain Nemo » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:26 pm

According to Chapman's Piloting there are nine ropes on board: bell ropes, man ropes, top ropes, foot ropes, bolt ropes, back ropes, bucket ropes, and tiller ropes. The main thing is that you don't make fast with a rope, you use a line.
What's for lunch Doug? :)
Boats are to be made of wood, otherwise, God would have grown fiberglass trees.

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Doug P
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Post by Doug P » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:29 pm

JohnKadimik wrote:A rope becomes a line when it is givin a purpose.

Lingne
, Fr, Linea Latin, woven with flax. A line can become a rope. A rope is made from lines.

Again, there is only one "rope" on a boat.... here's a hint, look at the cover of "Brass Bell".

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Doug P
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Post by Doug P » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:36 pm

Captain Nemo wrote:According to Chapman's Piloting there are nine ropes on board: bell ropes, man ropes, top ropes, foot ropes, bolt ropes, back ropes, bucket ropes, and tiller ropes. The main thing is that you don't make fast with a rope, you use a line.
What's for lunch Doug? :)
Right on. I was looking at the lanyard or "BellRope".
On a sailboat....what is a sheet?

Congratulations;
First on having Chapman's.
And we'll do lunch, how about next tuesday?

I've wondered about your signature line for a while....didn't Captain Nemo have a "steel" boat (Nautilus)

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JohnKadimik
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Post by JohnKadimik » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:44 pm

On a sailboat, the sheet is the line you pull in or let out the sail with.

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Post by Captain Nemo » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:45 pm

You got me on the signature line, I never really gave that any thought about the sub. It's a nickname picked up years ago.
Thanx for the lunch offer but a trip across the continent for a sandwich is a bit far to go :D .
Boats are to be made of wood, otherwise, God would have grown fiberglass trees.

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Doug P
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Post by Doug P » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:48 pm

JohnKadimik wrote:On a sailboat, the sheet is the line you pull in or let out the sail with.
There goes another lunch.
BTW, that lunch will be at 2013 ACBS National in Coeur d'Alene.
Doug

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Post by JohnKadimik » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:56 pm

It's a date!

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Post by mfine » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:58 pm

Most small outboards are started with a pull rope, and some sails have a bolt rope.

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Doug P
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Post by Doug P » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:03 pm

mfine wrote:Most small outboards are started with a pull rope, and some sails have a bolt rope.
OK Mat, what's a bolt rope?
Funny, just last night my wife were thinking back to the old Evinrudes with that pull rope, we had a different name....called them a @#$%^ rope.

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mfine
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Post by mfine » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:58 pm

The bolt rope is the rope sewn into the edge of the sail. On smaller boats it often feeds through the boom and mast, other times it is there for strength.

I raced sailboats as a kid through college, the question of the only rope on a sailboat is an old one. The bolt rope was usually the answer for us dihngy racers, but the larger boats often have a small outboard with a pull rope and forgetting that can cost you a case of beer. We never had bells or bell ropes.

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Post by boat_art » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:11 pm

Ok...try these without google. Whats the longest line on a ship? Shortest? Ok...how the tough one...whats a Charlie Noble?
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Post by mfine » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:25 pm

Shortest line is for the non-alcoholic beverages.

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Doug P
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Post by Doug P » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:53 pm

boat_art wrote:Ok...try these without google. Whats the longest line on a ship? Shortest? Ok...how the tough one...whats a Charlie Noble?
Charlie Noble.....Rum
Longest line....must be on a fishing boat.....or is that a yarn

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Post by Peter M Jardine » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:38 pm

Without looking at the video on ground tackle, I would say that anchoring is one of the most misunderstood and myth based practices in pleasure boating.

There is no requirement for chain. Chain adds weight to the anchor assembly, and keeps the rode at an angle which helps set the anchor more easily. HOWEVER, chain is no substitute for letting out enough anchor rode to ensure that the anchor is not only set, but will continue to be so for an extended period. With a rope only rode, 7 to 1 ratio is preferred. So, in 10 feet of water, 70 feet of anchor rode should be let out and so on. Most people let out about 4 to 1 with 10 feet of chain, don't bother to set the anchor by reversing the boat and digging it in, and then wonder why they end up bumping up against someone in the middle of the night, or resetting the anchor several times during an afternoon.

The other issue is what kind of anchor. The Danforth anchor, the most heavily used design in the last fifty years in pleasure boating, is only useful in sand and mud, with a minimum of weed. In the Great Lakes, it qualifies as one of the most useless pieces of ground tackle ever. The Bruce, CQR, Delta fastset, Rocna, and even the old Northill are better anchors in a variety of ground than the Danforth. A 36 foot CC weighing 10 tons requires a 35 to 40 pound anchor with 25 feet of chain and 300 feet of 9/16 line for a really effective ground tackle setup. Another anchor of approximately 22 pounds, with 150 feet of line is a good lunch anchor or secondary setup in the case of difficult or crowded anchorages. Anything less than this on a larger boat is for people who don't anchor much, and would never consider anchoring overnight, or need an anchor in an emergency situation.

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Post by jfrprops » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:59 pm

Getting back to the windlass and away from the rope/line/rode controversy:
Sounds to me like you have the "Good Automatic Windlass"......from New Jersey. I don't see otherwise in your post and the description fits that type rode pull windlass....that unit will NOT pull chain into the housing.
Geared unit, with the pulley and idler and gear box with 90W gear lube??? is that what you have....?
John in Va.
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debiby
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Post by debiby » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:55 pm

Here is a picture of my windlass My build sheet shows that the boat shipped with a 22lb anchor so that is what I got to use on it, hope it will hold if not I will get a bigger one. i don't think this thing will pull chain thru it.
Image
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Doug P
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Post by Doug P » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:05 am

Peter... a few points.
A chain should be used in tidal waters, and I set anchor by reversing the boat.
On the west coast, the Danforth is the prevelant anchor, it all depends on the bottom composition

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Post by jfrprops » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:16 am

can't tell exactly but that pic appears to show a sidepull windlass much like a GOOD in constrution?

for certain will not pull the chain in....but I think it would do the 22 lb anchor just fine. Having a front mounted "crane" for it would really help.

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
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1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
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Post by Peter M Jardine » Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:37 pm

Doug P wrote:Peter... a few points.
A chain should be used in tidal waters, and I set anchor by reversing the boat.
On the west coast, the Danforth is the prevelant anchor, it all depends on the bottom composition
Chain provides a elastic effect by the nature of it's weight in the rode. If anchoring overnight, in a wide variety of conditions, and weight aboard is not an issue, choose an all chain rode of 250 feet, followed by 100 feet of appropriate line. This should be backed up by a rope rode of similiar length mounted side by side with the chain rode and anchor.

Danforths are still a good anchor for mud and sand, but in my opinion are not as good as anchors such as the Rocna, Manson, or Delta Fastset. The Danforth has problems with wind shift in resetting itself under load. In rock, weedy ground, shale, and other holding grounds, the danforth rates poorly.

That said, most people who have problem anchoring use too little rode, do not set the anchor properly, use too large a line, or too small an anchor.

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Doug P
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Post by Doug P » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:41 pm

Peter M Jardine wrote:
Doug P wrote:Peter... a few points.
A chain should be used in tidal waters, and I set anchor by reversing the boat.
On the west coast, the Danforth is the prevelant anchor, it all depends on the bottom composition
Chain provides a elastic effect by the nature of it's weight in the rode. If anchoring overnight, in a wide variety of conditions, and weight aboard is not an issue, choose an all chain rode of 250 feet, followed by 100 feet of appropriate line. This should be backed up by a rope rode of similiar length mounted side by side with the chain rode and anchor.

Danforths are still a good anchor for mud and sand, but in my opinion are not as good as anchors such as the Rocna, Manson, or Delta Fastset. The Danforth has problems with wind shift in resetting itself under load. In rock, weedy ground, shale, and other holding grounds, the danforth rates poorly.

That said, most people who have problem anchoring use too little rode, do not set the anchor properly, use too large a line, or too small an anchor.

:?:

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debiby
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Post by debiby » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:25 pm

I am not sure of the make right now but that picture was taken with the cover off. I do have an anchor roller that goes in front of it. I think I will just get a good anchor rope and forget the chain because I don't think a chain will go thru it. I thought the guy at the boat shop was wrong.
Dan Biby
38' Challenger "DreamOn"

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Post by cenger » Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:25 am

With your new anchor line mark off every foot with a tag so you can count the feet as you let it out. The winless will let it our so quickly it's hard to know how many feet you let out without some type of marking.
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Doug P
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Post by Doug P » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:23 am

cenger wrote:With your new anchor line mark off every foot with a tag so you can count the feet as you let it out. The winless will let it our so quickly it's hard to know how many feet you let out without some type of marking.
Good reminder,
You can paint the chain with different colors, tags are available to mark lines, I would suggest 10' or more.
Doug

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debiby
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Post by debiby » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:11 am

Thanks thats a good idea and one I will do for sure.
Dan Biby
38' Challenger "DreamOn"

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Doug P
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Post by Doug P » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:50 am

Question of the day.....no googlin'
what are "anchors aweigh"?... and it ain't a musical! :?:

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