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1941 CC Steering

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tuobanur
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1941 CC Steering

Post by tuobanur » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:02 am

Hey guys, been out of the loop for a while but finally back at it. I began working on my steering last night and as you can see in the photo I'm a bit puzzled as to how the wheel is attached to the shaft. I've searched the archives but had no luck, what I would like to know is where I can find an explosion view of this assembly to make sure I'm not screwing up before I go hacking on this piece, it appears that the wheel is welded to the shaft.

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Terry
1941 Model 101 (16') Deluxe Runabout "Miss Dot"

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JohnKadimik
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Post by JohnKadimik » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:21 am

Terry, If I were you I would start looking for a new column and wheel. Yours is dead.

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Bill Basler
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Post by Bill Basler » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:44 am

John, those Gemmer gears are hard to find. Is that a rare three wire banjo? Seriously, my column looked s bad. I cannot tell from your photo...is that a nut holding the wheel on or is that the threads crudded up with rust and scale.
Bill Basler

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JimF
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Post by JimF » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:44 am

It does look like it is welded and that is not correct. I think you have a real problem. I have a 1942 18' with what appears to be the same wheel. My wheel has a tapered hole and a keyway. The wheel slips onto the shaft and is held in place with the nut. I think you may have to cut the nut off and then have a new tapered, threaded shaft end welded to what is left of the old shaft. This could be tough because there has to be a hole in the shaft for the throttle rod.
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Bill Basler
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Post by Bill Basler » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:31 pm

Jim's is the same as my 1942 17' Deluxe. I was afraid that that looked like a weld. Not an easy call on this one. John Kadimik may be right. It might be time to look around. A good machine shop can get that wheel off, machine a tapered and keyed piece of shaft. Given the complexity of lining up the new with the old and welding so that it is true, if would probably be easier to have the entire shaft remade if you cannot find an original for replacement. There is a worm gear at the bottom of this shaft. Protect that worm gear with you life, as they are hard to come by as well. The worm can be removed from the shaft with a hydraulic press.
Bill Basler

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tuobanur
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Post by tuobanur » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:51 pm

I'm a fabricator by trade so right now I'm just trying to figure out how to get it apart, I think I might be able to come up with a solution for re-attaching the wheel.
If I take the gear box apart will the steering shaft come out without having to remove the wheel?
Terry
1941 Model 101 (16') Deluxe Runabout "Miss Dot"

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Bill Basler
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Post by Bill Basler » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:58 pm

The top casting of the box will unbolt from the body, but the worm is too large in diameter to pull out through the top.
Bill Basler

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Bill Basler
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Post by Bill Basler » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:04 pm

Bill Basler

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JohnKadimik
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Post by JohnKadimik » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:06 pm

The problem is that the column is hollowed for the throttle rod, giving you no solid place to use a puller. As soon as you use a little pressure, the threads crumble like tin foil. You could try soaking it with pb blaster for a couple years before you throw it away.

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tuobanur
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Post by tuobanur » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:11 pm

Thanks Bill, do you know if there are any drawings of these around?
Terry
1941 Model 101 (16') Deluxe Runabout "Miss Dot"

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Bill Basler
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Post by Bill Basler » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:25 pm

They're hard to come by. Brattons would be a good place to start: http://brattons.com/prodtype.asp?PT_ID= ... istory=cat

Unfortunately when I click on the exploded views, they do not link to a larger size without error.
Bill Basler

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tuobanur
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Post by tuobanur » Thu Jun 30, 2011 2:42 pm

Yea I had the same problem, hoped maybe you knew of another site, thanks.
The rest of the unit is in remarkably good shape and complete not sure what happen with the shaft and wheel but it does appear that it was welded. I wasn't sure if maybe it was made in one piece it's so corroded it's hard to tell. Wouldn't make much sense that it would be in one piece though.
By-the-way liked your banjo comment. :)
Terry
1941 Model 101 (16') Deluxe Runabout "Miss Dot"

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JimF
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Post by JimF » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:16 pm

I am not much of a mechanic but what if you ran a hacksaw blade all the way around between the nut and the wheel being careful not to cut into the shaft. Haven't I heard of a nut splitter (no rude remarks, please) or couldn't the nut be cut to remove it from the threads without damaging them? Of course, the wheel may be stuck on the shaft but it might be worked loose without damaging the shaft.

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tuobanur
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Post by tuobanur » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:16 pm

Trying to take the steering box apart anyone know the sequence on doing that?
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Terry
1941 Model 101 (16') Deluxe Runabout "Miss Dot"

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tuobanur
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Post by tuobanur » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:32 am

So no one here has any experience taking one of these apart?? :shock:
Terry
1941 Model 101 (16') Deluxe Runabout "Miss Dot"

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Bill Basler
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Post by Bill Basler » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:01 am

Terry, I can help somewhat. I have taken a couple of these apart as far as I cared to/needed to.

The casting that as the side of the entire housing assembly is fairly easy. You can remove the pitman arm off of the splined sector shaft, by removing the nut on the end. You may have to use a puller on the arm. Mine just kind of fell off. I was lucky. This will depend on how badly yours is pressed on or rusted on.

The set of bolts immediately inward of that pitman arm are just for the mounting bracket. The affect the mounting angle of the unit when installed in the boat. You might want to make a scribe mark across the mounting flange and onto the other surface to help with reassembly. This was you will be able to put it back together at the same angle as it was. Just remove the three cap screws and you will be able to remove this mounting flange.

From there, you have the sector housing attached to the main housing. You can remove the cap screws that hold these two pieces together. Keep in mind the sector shaft has either two or three teeth that mesh into a worm gear. The worm is at the bottom of your main steering column shaft. The entire side housing with the sector shaft will come free as one unit.

With the sector housing and shaft free, you can remove the sector shaft out of the housing. It simply slide inward. Nothing to this really, other than you should take note of the seals. They are usually leather and will probably need to be replaced. These things almost always leaked, especially as they were filled with fairly low viscosity gear lube.

The actual steering column (outer tube) removes by loosing the clamp on the lower end. Then the shaft will pull off of a mounting seat on the main housing. This is a pretty simple assembly as well. On the upper end of this outer shaft is a rubber bushing. This rubber bushing keeps the outer shaft centered over the steering column.

From there, it gets bit trickier. I would start by bathing the entire lower gearbox in a degreaser or scrub it in a parts washer. This will help you see what you are dealing with internally.

The biggest issue here, is that the steering column shaft has the worm gear press fit on the lower end of the rod. This will keep it from being able to be removed. I needed up sending mine out to a local driveline shop to have the worm removed.

Most worms will be in OK shape. Mine was not. I had to search high and low for a replacement.

Oh, I should mention that the clamp at the very bottom go the throttle odd, needs to be loosened in order to get the throttle rod out the top of the column. Take pictures of every step in the process. You will need them going the other way.
Bill Basler

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Bill Basler
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Post by Bill Basler » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:22 am

There was also an excellent article about the Gemmer gears featured in the Fall 2007 Brass Bell. For convenience, I have posted this article here here
Bill Basler

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tuobanur
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Post by tuobanur » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:56 am

Bill thanks a lot, this is a big help. :D
Terry
1941 Model 101 (16') Deluxe Runabout "Miss Dot"

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tuobanur
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Post by tuobanur » Thu Aug 04, 2011 2:20 pm

Thanks again for the help guys, got it apart and thought I would share my findings for future reference. As it turned out what looked like a weld holding the wheel on was actually what was left of a nut, the end of the shaft is tapered and threaded with a key.
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Terry
1941 Model 101 (16') Deluxe Runabout "Miss Dot"

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JimF
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Post by JimF » Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:31 pm

How in the world did you get that nut off without ruining the shaft? Nice work!

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tuobanur
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Post by tuobanur » Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:03 am

Amazing what a little heat will do.

Now I just have to find a new three spoke steering wheel, anyone have any suggestions?
Terry
1941 Model 101 (16') Deluxe Runabout "Miss Dot"

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tuobanur
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Post by tuobanur » Fri Aug 19, 2011 6:51 pm

Well, i've decided i'm going to build a steering wheel for my boat, something i've always wanted to try my hand at and i figure what better time to go for it, so i need a little help with a few dimentions.
Basically i have some of what i need from the original basket but i need to know the finished thickness of the rim and spokes and a good picture that will show me the basic shape, any help will be greatly appreciated, thanks.

By-the-way i will be building it out of Ash with a painted finish.
Terry
1941 Model 101 (16') Deluxe Runabout "Miss Dot"

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tuobanur
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Wheel Construction

Post by tuobanur » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:25 am

Beginning stages of my wheel construction, never got any responses for wheel specs so I'm using some pictures.
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Terry
1941 Model 101 (16') Deluxe Runabout "Miss Dot"

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tuobanur
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Update

Post by tuobanur » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:12 pm

Update pictures of steering wheel construction (outer rim & cenyer hub).
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Last edited by tuobanur on Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Terry
1941 Model 101 (16') Deluxe Runabout "Miss Dot"

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Don Ayers
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Post by Don Ayers » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:57 pm

A lost art for sure. Be careful...people are going to start calling you to make wheels :D
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Chad Durren
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Post by Chad Durren » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:00 pm

Nice work! Keep the progress photos coming.
1952 CC 18' Sportsman
1969 CC 19' Commander Super Sport

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JimF
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Post by JimF » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:59 pm

I hope I am not too late. I just saw that you are looking for dimensions. The outside of the wheel is a circle about 1" in diameter. There are 2 raised ribs on the top and the grips are about 1" peak to peak. They are not on the backside of the rim but are about half way between the backside and the spokes. The spokes taper from about 1" at the hub to 1/2" at the rim. There is one raised rib on the spoke. If you anything more specific, please ask and I will try to photo or measure. Nice work so far!
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tuobanur
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Post by tuobanur » Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:39 am

Jim thanks a lot but it appears that your wheel is different than what was on my boat and one that I saw on a restored model 101. My wheel is basically smooth on the outside with the finger grips on the back side.
This is what mind looked like.
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Terry
1941 Model 101 (16') Deluxe Runabout "Miss Dot"

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JimF
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Post by JimF » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:13 am

My boat is a 1942 18' so maybe that explains the difference.

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tuobanur
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Post by tuobanur » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:03 am

A very productive weekend on my wheel.
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Next step will be the finger notches on the back side and then glue up.
Terry
1941 Model 101 (16') Deluxe Runabout "Miss Dot"

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