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Gell stain promotes peeling?

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George Emmanuel
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Gell stain promotes peeling?

Post by George Emmanuel » Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:12 pm

When I started on this 17' Sportsman I was advised to try the gell stain instead of the typical Pettit/Interlux products. So I did, and I applied the stain over planks sanded with 100 grit paper,-- applied 2 coats of Pettit sealer, then multiple coats of varnish sanding in between. Today I started mounting the bow toe-rails and needed to shave the deck a bit and that varnish will come off like wallpaper. I had the same issue when pulling off the tape along the edge of the bottom paint/varnish line.

Anyone else have those issues? On the rest of the boat I've gone back to the Pettit product....and by the way, there is a slight difference in color!

George

boat_art
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Re: Gell stain promotes peeling?

Post by boat_art » Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:59 pm

Interesting. I wonder if there was some contamination before the stain was applied. I use Dave Jerome's gel stain on everything and have for several years and never had a problem at all. In fact, when I have had to remove it for some reason I have had to totally sand it out of the grain.
I am very interested if anyone else has had a problem.
Tom
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1956 CC Connie 47'
1959 Caulkins bartender
1965 Cheoy Lee Frisco Flyer
1953 Chris Craft Holiday
1941 Chris Craft Deluxe
Plus 8-12 customer boats at any time
God don't count the days spent messing around in wood boats.

boat_art
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Re: Gell stain promotes peeling?

Post by boat_art » Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:01 pm

One more thing. I use thinned Epiphanes as a sealer. I wonder if something happens with the Pettit sealer?
Tom
http://www.boatartgallery.com
1956 CC Connie 47'
1959 Caulkins bartender
1965 Cheoy Lee Frisco Flyer
1953 Chris Craft Holiday
1941 Chris Craft Deluxe
Plus 8-12 customer boats at any time
God don't count the days spent messing around in wood boats.

boat_art
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Re: Gell stain promotes peeling?

Post by boat_art » Sat Feb 20, 2016 7:14 am

Re-reading my comments it occurs to me I should add that after applying the gel stain you must wipe off the excess and let it dry thoroughly. I like to wait at least a day or two before sealing. Instructions come with it.
Tom
http://www.boatartgallery.com
1956 CC Connie 47'
1959 Caulkins bartender
1965 Cheoy Lee Frisco Flyer
1953 Chris Craft Holiday
1941 Chris Craft Deluxe
Plus 8-12 customer boats at any time
God don't count the days spent messing around in wood boats.

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Captain Nemo
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Re: Gell stain promotes peeling?

Post by Captain Nemo » Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:49 am

I'm w/ Tom on this. Sounds to me like the stain didn't get a chance to gas out. Under cool and or damp conditions you can't be in a hurry to get the sealer on.
Boats are to be made of wood, otherwise, God would have grown fiberglass trees.

George Emmanuel
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Re: Gell stain promotes peeling?

Post by George Emmanuel » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:01 am

I allowed the stain to dry for several days before applying the sealer and I did a thorough job of wiping it during the application. It's as if the sealer doesn't penetrate the stain. When it peels you can see the stain underneath. I'm baffled! When I started using the gel stain I did speak with Dave (and I miss our conversations) about procedure. I love the way the stuff goes on but now I'm wondering what sort of life I'm going to get out of this.

Riviera Wish
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Re: Gell stain promotes peeling?

Post by Riviera Wish » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:55 pm

I am in the early stages of refinishing an 18' Riviera with Jerome's gel stain. Sealed with CEPS and allowed plenty of dry time between various coatings,gel stain, CPES, Schooner 96 varnish (6 coats so far). I've taped to the varnished surfaces to separate the mahogany color from the blonde color. Have not had any peeling problems yet.

George Emmanuel
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Re: Gell stain promotes peeling?

Post by George Emmanuel » Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:36 am

Could it be that the necessary part is the application of CPES?

George

joanroy
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Re: Gell stain promotes peeling?

Post by joanroy » Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:29 am

CPES can be used as a sealer but is optional and not a "necessary" part of a good varnish job. What brand of varnish did you use over the Pettit sealer? Is your varnish still fresh? Depending on varnish type and conditions varnish will dry to the touch, but can take several days or weeks to fully cure. It not uncommon to get peeling when you pull the tape if the varnish coats have covered the tape edge when applied and the tape has been on for a long time. If you score the varnish edge of the tape slightly with a razor blade and pull very slowly it'll come off cleaner.

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MikeM
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Re: Gell stain promotes peeling?

Post by MikeM » Sun Feb 21, 2016 12:59 pm

I have been using Dave's gel stain for years. I have also experienced the "delam" of varnish when drilling for hardware. I used to use Pettit sanding sealer after letting the stain dry for a day or two. I stopped using the Pettit and now just use thinned Epiphanes as sealer and proceed to varnish with Epi....the problem has gone away. I blame the sealer. I have never sealed with CPES because I never had a problem using sealer plus CPES is smelly nasty stuff.
1929 Hacker Craft Dolphin, 24'
1940 Century Utility, 17'
1947 Chris Craft Special, 16'
1947 Chris Craft Sportsman, 22'
1949 Chris Craft Racing Runabout, 19'
1952 Penn Yan Cartopper, 12'
1954 Chris~Craft Racing Runabout, 19' (For Sale)
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George Emmanuel
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Re: Gell stain promotes peeling?

Post by George Emmanuel » Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:16 pm

Mike, for years I used varnish thinned 50/50 for the first two coats,---but everybody recommended the Pettit sealer. I too think that is the root of the problem. The advantage of the Pettit sealer is it doesn't pick up the stain,.....so what does that tell you about it's ability to penetrate the stain? Hmm...

George

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