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Now I know why they painted it

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jbyers
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Now I know why they painted it

Post by jbyers » Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:50 pm

IMG_1613.JPG
Well tonight I started in earnest removing the paint on my 58 Cavalier. As you can see from the pictures, there appears to be some sort of putty of some type along the first foot or so. There are also a couple of areas where the adjacent "good" plywood is delaminated. There is no doubt I am going to have to smooth (sand) out the putty and add some sort of wood filler patches to fill low spots and feather into the delaminated areas. So, I have a couple of questions:

1) What sort of wood filler can I use off the shelf that is sandable and somewhat stainable? I realize it will be obviously a patch on the finished product, but I want it to blend in color wise if possible.

2) If you enlarge the first picture, you may see what I think shows the wood under the white stripe was never stained. Is this proper for this year Cavalier? If so, I guess I would go back with the white paint, but not sure.

3) As you can see, there is still stain/paint/residue remaining after the heat gun/scraping. Will I be able to sand down to virgin wood with a sanding long block?

Regarding the second picture, I have a lot of rotten spots on the horizontal top surfaces that run along each side of the boat. I am expecting to have to remove/replace this as opposed to patching it. I stripped part of it expecting to see some screws or whatever to fasten it down. I see no screws, but I do see what appears to be a couple of finishing nail holes with putty over them. Can anyone tell me how to remove all of this wood without causing damage to the adjacent surfaces?? I sure hope it isn't glued down.

Thanks in advance. As you can see, my work is cut out for me, but I am determined to expose what good wood I can and refinish it before next summer.
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Chad Durren
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Re: Now I know why they painted it

Post by Chad Durren » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:23 am

Famowood is a great filler and also stainable. It appears the prior owned repaired with expoxy filler (or similar) along the stem, which is totally fine because ended up painting the entire hull anyway. Not sure what Cavalier model you have. Some of them were painted hulls and some just had the top stripe painted.

That being said, the beauty of a plywood planked hull is that wood replacement is relatively easy. You mentioned "delamination" of some of the ply. Rather than strip the ply, fill, re-stain, re-varnish or re-paint, you might find it easier to just replace the hull sides entirely. Probably not what you wanted to hear but you'll be much happier with the end result. Just my opinion. :D

Below is another '58 as an example. Not mine, I Googled it.

Best of luck!
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1952 CC 18' Sportsman
1969 CC 19' Commander Super Sport

jbyers
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Re: Now I know why they painted it

Post by jbyers » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:03 am

Thanks Chad..... No not what I wanted to hear. I will keep stripping and see how much more delamination I find before deciding.

Do you think that the amount of residue shown in the picture on the area I already stripped can be sanded through with a long board, or should I put more time into the heat the heat gun??

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Chad Durren
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Re: Now I know why they painted it

Post by Chad Durren » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:32 am

I would think a chemical stripper would do the least amount of damage to your already delaminating ply. Are you after a finished "bright" hull side? You probably won't get the best results by stripping the ply, and then you run the risk of sanding right through the ply getting down to clean wood.

My first choice would be replace the ply. Looks like you're already into replace your covering boards, anyway.

If you find the wood is sound after stripping, my second choice would be a fill, sand and repaint. Which ever gets you out on the water.

You can do it, we can help!
1952 CC 18' Sportsman
1969 CC 19' Commander Super Sport

jbyers
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Re: Now I know why they painted it

Post by jbyers » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:39 am

Thanks Chad. Speaking of the covering boards, how the heck do I get them off? I see no screws in them, only possible small finishing nails. Do I just start banging away at them with a hammer and a chisel? Seems risky...... thanks

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evansjw44
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Re: Now I know why they painted it

Post by evansjw44 » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:44 am

Where the wood has de-laminated it has lost most of its strength. Replacing it is really a safety issue. Your hull sides are probably 3/8 or 1/2 inch mahogany venier marine grade plywood. That stuff is still around but probably not local to you. If the de-lamination is at the stem I'd suspect there is some decay in the stem as well. Sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings. Pockets of decay along the deck might be salvageable with some "dutchman" inserts.
Jim Evans

jbyers
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Re: Now I know why they painted it

Post by jbyers » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:58 am

It is what it is as they say Jim.

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Re: Now I know why they painted it

Post by jbyers » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:40 am

Well here is a progress (oxymoron) report. The good news is that about 95% of the wood underneath is good so far. Also I used an orbital sander with about 80 grit to test and see if it would remove the sticky paint residue left after the glue gun and it did easily.

The bad news is that I continue to encounter smallish soft spots previously patched with some sort of putty. I think I can CESP these and famowood over them. I do have some of that unremovable marine tex that I patched a sections along the lower rub rail to fill some rot last summer. I guess I can try to sand it down and do what I can to paint in a similar color to the stain before I varnish.

I am also starting to see an area (by the GA letters) under the white paint that was stained, unlike what I was seeing that appeared unstained closer to the front of the boat.

I also put copious amounts of white 5200 along the top edge of the lower rub rail thinking I was going to paint over it. The heat gun won't touch this stuff. Does anyone have a trick for removing this???

It's going to be a warmish day this afternoon, so I'll take off work hoping to at least finish off this one side and access the damage.

Any comments are appreciated.........
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dag55
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Re: Now I know why they painted it

Post by dag55 » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:24 am

I think that your boat was painted from the factory. That explains the putty spots all over and that it don't seem to have been stained before. It's hard to tell from your pics, but it looks like the plywood under the paint is construction grade plywood, wich won't look very good if stained an d warnished. I'd go for a good paintjob! There is a CC Cavalier Sports at my club, where the owners removed the paint on the deck, that was previously topped with nautolex. They sanded and warnished, but the result is imho not very good...
Cavalier 36' Seastrake 1967 "CillaGreta III"
http://chris-craft.org/registry/viewboa ... at_id=2318

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parroteyes
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Re: Now I know why they painted it

Post by parroteyes » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:52 pm

Copious amounts of 5200 is a major issue.
It won't sand or grind off. The tool will grind away the wood and leave the 5200 until it clogs.
It has to be cut off.
Even then you'll probably be better off undercutting the 5200 in the wood rather than trying to just trimming out the excess 5200.
I have used a razor knife and enormous amounts of time.
Tried heat but it just makes the 5200 a gooey mess.
Tried the vibrating saw with a flat (no teeth) blade. Harder to work with than a razor knife.
If you figure out a better way, please post under a new heading like "Removing 5200"

Good luck
Hull # 16-R-OX2 (March 1946)
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jbyers
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Re: Now I know why they painted it

Post by jbyers » Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:54 pm

Thanks Parrot....... there are a couple of products I saw online that specifically claim to remove 5200, but it's clear they won't desolve it. They say you have a cut between it and the surface it's bonded to and then spray it on and let it sit. It supposedly losens the bond. I can't see it working, but I will buy some and report back.

jbyers
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Re: Now I know why they painted it

Post by jbyers » Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:19 pm

OK, progress report. I have most of the paint off one side. I have uncovered some small rotted spots. Old patches made with some sort of filler most noteably what looks like bondo in a horizontal line just above the water line tape. I am guessing that there was either a gash repair there prior to painting or a strip that delaminated and was filled with bondo. The only good news is that it appears well bonded and is sandable. It will be a challenge to stain it and blend it in but I know I won't get perfection.

A couple of questions:

1) The cover boards and forward deck both appear to have darker stain than the sides. Is this correct???

2) I have seen Cavaliers with the upper section on the side above the horizontal trim piece both painted white and stained/vanished the same color as the sides below the trim piece. I tend not to like the all stained look since there isn't much of a contrast where the trim divides these two areas.

Sooooooooo....... and I know this borders on blasphemy........ I hate to cover the wood grain with the white paint, since most of the wood in this area is undamaged. I was considering using a darker contrasting stain on the top part and the original looking mahogany stain on the bottom part. That would show the beauty of the wood and still have a contrast as opposed to having the same color stain on the entire side of the boat.

What do you guys/gals think???
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joanroy
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Re: Now I know why they painted it

Post by joanroy » Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:46 pm

I think it's fine to stain paint and varnish it however you like it if it is pleasing to your eye, unless your going for the prize winning historically correct restoration. Preserve her the best you can and enjoy and it'll be around for the next owner to do the show boat thing if he chooses. Just make sure she's seaworthy and safe.

jbyers
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Re: Now I know why they painted it

Post by jbyers » Thu Jan 14, 2016 5:57 pm

My feelings too. I used to do antique show cars and I guess I'm just a stickler for authenticity........

jbyers
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Re: Now I know why they painted it

Post by jbyers » Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:37 pm

OK, I have most of the boat stripped now. I am encountering enough rot and old repairs that it is clear I will have to do some creative painting and striping if I want to still be able to stain/varnish the parts that are still in good condition.

I have two questions:

First, on those areas that I paint or put stripes on, I assume I can varnish over that as well???

Secondly, I am confused after reading all the pros and cons regarding caulk that is paintable/stainable. Some seems compatible with only water based paints, some with oil based and some with both.

What would you guys suggest I use for caulk that is easily paintable/stainable witht he most common boat stains and paints in use today?

Thanks in advance,

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