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what's your topside sealer?

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iwally
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what's your topside sealer?

Post by iwally » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:04 pm

Gearing up for a full topsides/deck refinish job I'm interested to hear what sealer people have used .. with what success and how applied. Assume original planking sanded, (filler) stained, etc; going on a '54 Sportsman 22'.

Danenberg says use CPES brushed on.
Experts at an ACBS symposium liked Interlux Sealer #1026 or Pettit Old Salem #2018 Clear Sealer -- BUT said it must/should be SPRAYED on (otherwise use very very thinned-out varnish coats). Note, I'm not prepared to do any paint spraying.

Has anyone here used CPES over filler stain as a sealer?

thanks

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SSlezak
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Re: what's your topside sealer?

Post by SSlezak » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:42 pm

It is my understanding that loads of people use CPES as a sealer. As long as the filler is given time to cure fully and you're careful not to push the stain around when applying, it should work great.

In my case, haven never done a stain and sealer job, I am worried about screwing it up and having to deal the CPES sealing in imperfections. I would be interested in knowing how difficult it is to work with/ re-stain something that has been treated with CPES.

Since this is my first go around, I've decide to seal with 50% thinned varnish.

-Sam
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Re: what's your topside sealer?

Post by boat_art » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:25 pm

I often use CPES over filler stain. Be sure the stain has fully dried and use a brush with the grain and it shouldn't be a problem. I have many times added stain to Epiphanes varnish to darken areas also. CPES will sand out if needed, it doesn't penetrate much.
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Re: what's your topside sealer?

Post by boat_art » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:28 pm

CPES will however penetrate soft wood or extremely dry wood. On a topsides surface it doesn't penetrate much.
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1953 Chris Craft Holiday
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Doug P
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Re: what's your topside sealer?

Post by Doug P » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:46 pm

SSlezak wrote:It is my understanding that loads of people use CPES as a sealer. As long as the filler is given time to cure fully and you're careful not to push the stain around when applying, it should work great.

In my case, haven never done a stain and sealer job, I am worried about screwing it up and having to deal the CPES sealing in imperfections. I would be interested in knowing how difficult it is to work with/ re-stain something that has been treated with CPES.

Since this is my first go around, I've decide to seal with 50% thinned varnish.

-Sam

There was substantial info about using CPES months ago in this forum. I would strongly suggest that you read it.

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Re: what's your topside sealer?

Post by Peter M Jardine » Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:51 pm

My father is a doctorate in chemical engineering, but I ain't. Sometimes what we view in practice is the determination of what we use as products. Wooden boat people have favourite varnishes, paints, sealers, thinners, cleaners and on and on. Essentially Old Salem is a phenolic resin (think bakelite) mixed with linseed oil and a dryer. CPES is an two part epoxy diluted by several thinners so that it is a slow curing, low viscosity liquid that after the thinners flash off, cure within the structure of the wood.

Epoxies have so many different chemistry possibilities that it's impossible to quantify what CPES's secret formula is, but serve it to say that epoxies can be modified for water resistance, uv stability, brittleness, adhesion etc. This is where epoxies have advantage over older phenol recipes.Phenol even has uses within epoxy chemistries, and some epoxies have phenol components.
I find that the THINNERS in CPES is the problem when applying it to stained surfaces. It remoisturizes the stain, and the brush moves it around. That said, it's a great sealer. So is Old Salem. On occasion, I still use Linseed and Turps heated up, and pound it to smaller pieces of trim as long as it will soak in. It works too.

If I were to base it on pure chemistry alone, I would give the edge to CPES. For a trailered boat that is regularly covered, I think you can err on the side of what you find the easiest to apply. I have yet to find the perfect sealer that allows me to paint or varnish once every ten years on an outside boat. :mrgreen:

iwally
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Re: what's your topside sealer?

Post by iwally » Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:28 am

Thanks to all for responses. If it's not obvious, this is my first go 'round with all this and I appreciate practical experience.

Here's the thing ..
Symposium pros said that spraying was the only way with Interlux or Petit, (perhaps because of tendency to push stain ?) but also admonished great care if brushing on thinned Varnished - because it too can muddle stain.

Danenberg says thinned varnish will push stains because it is made with same solvents but then claims *not* so for CPES. (yep, I get that he is high on CPES).

So is everyone spraying on their Interlux or Petit sealers? Is there anything that doesn't muddle the stain when brushed or rolled? Or is this all a function of stain cure and/or humidity?

I think that it was an earlier post from Peter that led me to ask this question.

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Re: what's your topside sealer?

Post by sportsman » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:06 pm

When I stripped and refinished my U-22 about ten years ago, I put CPES over the stain on one side, and not the other. After ten years there was not any difference between the two sides in color or longevity. I did have to sand the CPES off after I stained it the first time because I was not happy with the stain job I did. IT WAS A TOTAL PAIN IN THE...arm. I finally got a pneumatic inline sander to get it off (and I am a serious weight lifter, so not a wimp :) ). Just for that reason I do not use it to seal stain. I do use it in the bilge on any old wood that show any age.

Btw, I sealed with varnish only. Not saying that is the best way, but it works. I use my boat often (five days a week from spring till Christmas) and do not shy away from long voyages and filling the boat with friends. The finish lasted ten years and the hull sides were still shining with annual varnish applications.

The decks eventually needed refinishing, simply from the natural flex of being in too many storms; so I had the entire boat stripped and refinished. This time I paid to have it done, and he used sealer (three coats). I will let you know how it held up.

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Re: what's your topside sealer?

Post by tkhersom » Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:18 am

This past spring I purchased Sandusky's Clear Sealer, but have not had the chance to use much, just on a few spot jobs. It seemed to work well.

My thinking was that I was using Sandusky stain / filler so why not use their sealer.

Has anyone out there had experience with this product? :?
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Re: what's your topside sealer?

Post by maritimeclassics » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:13 am

I have used Pettit Clear Sealer 2018 for many years with great results. I try to stain the whole boat and the pieces on a Friday and let them sit over the weekend to give them enough time to dry well. Then I apply 3 coats of sealer all in one day rolling and tipping with a foam roller and brush with no sanding in between. You just need to wait for the sealer to kick off and dry to the touch which does not take long. After the 3 coats of sealer dries overnight you can then scotch-brite with out any chance of going through to the stain, it gives you some security. Then I start my build coats of varnish the first couple I will thin with thinner about 30% then about 20% for coats number 3 and 4 and then full strength after that. I have tried CPES over stain once and will never do it again, the stuff is expensive to use as a sealer and you really not gaining anything. Have fun with it and good luck.
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Re: what's your topside sealer?

Post by JohnKadimik » Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:52 am

I basically do the same procedure as Mike, but use Interlux Interprime #1026 (3 coats also). Sticking to what works for me.

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tkhersom
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Re: what's your topside sealer?

Post by tkhersom » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:11 pm

JohnKadimik wrote:I basically do the same procedure as Mike, but use Interlux Interprime #1026 (3 coats also). Sticking to what works for me.
OK but I don't see anyone here signed in as "Mike". Guess I would assume he is "maritimeclassics" but you know what happens when I ASS-U-ME. :oops:
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

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Re: what's your topside sealer?

Post by JohnKadimik » Sat Sep 07, 2013 8:03 pm

Sorry, yes that would be Mike Green @ Maritime Classics

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tkhersom
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Re: what's your topside sealer?

Post by tkhersom » Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:02 am

Thanks!

Now I know who he is! :D
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

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Re: what's your topside sealer?

Post by edward.desimone » Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:36 pm

Reviving an old thread - I just bleached and stained my '48 Deluxe using Mike Mayor's gel stains. I did chris craft post-war as well as chris craft dark for the covering boards. I intend to seal with CPES and will give the stain a few days to dry/cure while I have a dehumidifier going since it's pretty humid here in the northeast. Given the fact that the CPES is pretty wet when applied, how do people approach sealing the covering boards? I sealed my ceilings which I also stained and could tell the sealer was pulling a little bit of the stain even after having a few days to dry. I suspect it will do the same and tested as such with the chris craft dark stain for the covering boards. Is it just a matter of leaving more time for this stain to dry/cure before applying so as not to lift or move any of the stain around?

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