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Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

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mmoody435
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Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by mmoody435 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 1:26 pm

The boat – 1959 CC Continental, 21’ Hardtop with original 283-H engine, 245 hours. I bought the boat in July, 2015.

The situation - I put the boat in the water for the first time on Tuesday and ran for about an hour, off and on, with no issues. Ran the boat again on Wednesday with no issues. On Friday, I ran the boat for about 40 minutes then stopped for about 3 hours at the Red Bull Cliff Diving competition on Possum Kingdom Lake Texas. Needless to say, the boat turned a lot of heads and got numerous comments. Anyway, on the way back to the dock, I ran for about 25 minutes at +/- 3200 RPMs and noticed low/no oil pressure on the original electrical gauge as well as the mechanical oil pressure gauge I added. I have also installed a low pressure cut off switch to the electric fuel pump. All items are on the same 1/8” port. (See photo). I stopped to assess the situation and, RIGHT OR WRONG, I decided to continue to my final destination. I ran for an additional 10 minutes at between 2000 and 3200 RMPs. Then idled in a no wake zone for about 10 minutes with no oil pressure indication on either gauge. The fuel pump never shut off, the engine never made any unusual noises (clattering), didn’t overheat, didn’t smoke and didn’t seize up as I would have expected.
Since then, I took off the sending unit and installed an analog test gauge. I turned the engine over and the needle didn’t move at all. Any suggestions on where to go from here?
Thanks
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Morris Moody
1960 18' CC Continental
1959 21' CC Continental Hardtop
South Louisiana

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tkhersom
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Re: Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by tkhersom » Sun Jun 05, 2016 7:32 pm

I think I would check the oil pump.

I want to see pictures! She sounds like a real beauty! :D
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

joanroy
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Re: Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by joanroy » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:11 pm

That's an interesting oil pressure/kill switch plumbing setup you have going on there. If the kill switch didn't shut down the engine when she lost pressure obviously that's not working. Could be something with the senders from the engine not communicating with the gauges. I'd disconnect that stuff and direct pipe a a cheap auto parts store gauge. See if that works.

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Re: Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by jim g » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:25 pm

With the analog gauge. Its not going to move unless you crank it up. If you don't want to crank it up. You can remove the clamp that holds the tach drive on, remove the angle tach cable drive then remove the tach drive in the block. Then use a priming tool and cordless drill to check the oil pressure. Inspect the gear after you pull it out. If the gear is stripped or worn badly this will effect your oil pressure. It is this gear that drives the oil pump.

The other thing that can cause loss of oil pressure is a stopped up oil filter. I someone has put in a remote oil filter system you no longer have a bypass valve to let oil through if the filter were to clog up. Its rare for this to happen. But I have seen it happen.

The last thing is something is wrong with the oil pump. These pumps very rarely if ever fail.

So put the analog gauge on it and either crank it up or use the priming tool and check the oil pressure. With the priming tool its only going to pump in one direction. So when you pull the angle drive off. Spin the engine over to see which way it turns. then spin the drill that way.

The fuel pressure cut off only needs about 2 pounds of pressure to trigger. So the pump can keep running even if the gauge show nothing.

Let us know what you find.

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Re: Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by jim g » Sun Jun 05, 2016 8:27 pm

Forgot the link to the priming tool.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/62200/10002/-1

mmoody435
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Re: Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by mmoody435 » Sun Jun 05, 2016 10:41 pm

Thanks all for the suggestions. I did turn the engine over with the analog gauge in place of the sending unit. I'll try the analog gauge straight off of the engine and see what happens.
Jim G - do you think to sending unit, manual gauge and low pressure switch plumbing set up is questionable?
Think I'll check the oil filter (original set up) first. Since the oil looked good when I got her I didn't change it or the filter. Was going to wait until I put a few successful hours on her first.

Here is a picture from the other day. She's much more impressive from the aft.
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Morris Moody
1960 18' CC Continental
1959 21' CC Continental Hardtop
South Louisiana

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tkhersom
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Re: Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by tkhersom » Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:04 am

mmoody435 wrote:........ Here is a picture from the other day. She's much more impressive from the aft.
That is just the way some of them are. :lol:

I LOVE these finned 21'ers. We now have 3 on our lake and a Capri version. No hard tops though.

Does the top slide?
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Jimmy and Yorktown cruising.
15-300x140.jpg (29.82 KiB) Viewed 2276 times
Caprihome.jpg
Capri arrives from St. Lewis
ModNewBoat.jpg
No Name when she was brought home from St. Lewis
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

jim g
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Re: Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by jim g » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:01 am

mmoody435 wrote:Thanks all for the suggestions. I did turn the engine over with the analog gauge in place of the sending unit. I'll try the analog gauge straight off of the engine and see what happens.
Jim G - do you think to sending unit, manual gauge and low pressure switch plumbing set up is questionable?
Think I'll check the oil filter (original set up) first. Since the oil looked good when I got her I didn't change it or the filter. Was going to wait until I put a few successful hours on her first.

Here is a picture from the other day. She's much more impressive from the aft.

No. I doubt the oil sender plumbing set up has anything to do with it.

If your just spinning the engine over it without it starting it will not build much oil pressure. It needs to be cranked up and rev'ed up a couple of times for a true reading or use the priming tool with a fully charged cordless drill.

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Re: Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by jim g » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:04 am

Also if you pull the oil filter and its the canister type look at it very well for metal flakes especially between the pleats of the filter.

If its a spin on cut the casing close to the top and look between the pleats for metal flakes.

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drrot
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Re: Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by drrot » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:14 am

When you lost the oil pressure reading did the tachometer continue to read? The tach drive also powers the oil pump.
Jim Staib
www.finewoodboats.com


1947 Penn Yan 12' Cartopper WXH474611
1950 Chris-Craft 22' Sportsman U-22-1532
1957 Chris-Craft 26' Sea Skiff SK-26-515
1968 Century 17' Resorter FG-68-174

mmoody435
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Re: Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by mmoody435 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:37 am

drrot wrote:When you lost the oil pressure reading did the tachometer continue to read? The tach drive also powers the oil pump.
Yes, the tachometer continued to work properly.
Morris Moody
1960 18' CC Continental
1959 21' CC Continental Hardtop
South Louisiana

mmoody435
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Re: Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by mmoody435 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:43 am

tkhersom wrote:
mmoody435 wrote:........ Here is a picture from the other day. She's much more impressive from the aft.
That is just the way some of them are. :lol:

I LOVE these finned 21'ers. We now have 3 on our lake and a Capri version. No hard tops though.

Does the top slide?
Yes, the lower section of the top slides forward. And the previous owner made some side windows. Pretty cool set up...
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Morris Moody
1960 18' CC Continental
1959 21' CC Continental Hardtop
South Louisiana

mmoody435
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Re: Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by mmoody435 » Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:57 pm

As Jim G suggested, I found an oil pump priming tool at the local Auto Zone and hooked it up. GREAT TOOL! I was a little surprised at how much I had to increase the torque on the drill to get it to operate the oil pump. Anyway, it took a few seconds but eventually I had oil pressure (about 40 psi) on both gauges. Yippie! Photo attached.
After that I hooked the tach back up, started the engine and every thing seems normal. Then I moved forward and sucked the oil out of the engine and transmission and changed the canister type filter. I haven't checked the filter for metal yet but there was some debris I removed from the top of the filter housing (see photo) and some thick oil (sludge) in the bottom of the filter housing. After adding fresh oil everything seems to be good. I'll do a test run tomorrow.

Maybe the oil filter was stopped up and the by pass did it's thing??? Not sure...

Moving on to the next issue - Intake manifold hot near the center on both sides. I'll start a new post for that...

Thanks for all the help!!!
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Morris Moody
1960 18' CC Continental
1959 21' CC Continental Hardtop
South Louisiana

jim g
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Re: Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by jim g » Mon Jun 06, 2016 7:08 pm

Is the debris you found metal or carbon?

Don't worry about the hot spots on either side of the manifold. There normal. The intake passes exhaust gas under the intake air chamber to help warm the air. It also makes the manual choke work.

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Re: Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by evansjw44 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:48 pm

I looked at your oil pressure sensing plumbing. I saw plastic tubing running to what I guess is the analog gauge. I would never trust plastic tubing that could rupture and dump the entire crank case of oil into the bilge and destroy your engine. Get metalic tubing. This isn't a hot rod.
Jim Evans

mmoody435
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Re: Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by mmoody435 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:23 pm

evansjw44 wrote:I looked at your oil pressure sensing plumbing. I saw plastic tubing running to what I guess is the analog gauge. I would never trust plastic tubing that could rupture and dump the entire crank case of oil into the bilge and destroy your engine. Get metalic tubing. This isn't a hot rod.
Thanks Jim Evans for the heads up! Good catch. I'll get that replaced.
Morris Moody
1960 18' CC Continental
1959 21' CC Continental Hardtop
South Louisiana

mmoody435
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Re: Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by mmoody435 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 5:51 pm

jim g wrote:Is the debris you found metal or carbon?

Don't worry about the hot spots on either side of the manifold. There normal. The intake passes exhaust gas under the intake air chamber to help warm the air. It also makes the manual choke work.
The debris on my fingers in the previous picture appeared more like sediment and some metal. Perhaps it was carbon. I was going to take a better look at it but the dock hand threw my trash away before I could gather it up.
Anyway, I did take the oil filter apart today. Some pictures are included. Definitely some metal flakes were noticed along with some CC blue paint. It was kinda like panning for gold but hoping not to find anything shiney in between each pleat .....

Hope this is normal wear and tear?
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Morris Moody
1960 18' CC Continental
1959 21' CC Continental Hardtop
South Louisiana

jim g
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Re: Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by jim g » Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:42 pm

Change the filter and oil. Then run the boat for 5 or so hours. The pull the filter and check it. If its eating bearings then you will now by whats in the filter or really bad noises.

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Re: Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by joanroy » Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:46 am

What's the history of your boat? If the engine was opened up and gone through prior to your purchase, the debris your finding in the oil is probably just residual rebuild crud. Definitely change the oil a couple of times and run it. If the oil pressure is good and she runs good, Rock It! Cool boat and quite rare with the hard top. Happy Boating!

mmoody435
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Re: Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by mmoody435 » Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:21 pm

jim g wrote:Change the filter and oil. Then run the boat for 5 or so hours. The pull the filter and check it. If its eating bearings then you will now by whats in the filter or really bad noises.
Thanks Jim G. Fresh oil and filter in now. So far no unusual noises. I'll check the filter in 5 or so hours.
I'm prepared to have the engine rebuilt eventually. Was hoping to get a full summer (or more) out of it.
Morris Moody
1960 18' CC Continental
1959 21' CC Continental Hardtop
South Louisiana

mmoody435
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Re: Low/no oil pressure – may have dodged a bullet

Post by mmoody435 » Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:25 pm

joanroy wrote:What's the history of your boat? If the engine was opened up and gone through prior to your purchase, the debris your finding in the oil is probably just residual rebuild crud. Definitely change the oil a couple of times and run it. If the oil pressure is good and she runs good, Rock It! Cool boat and quite rare with the hard top. Happy Boating!
I'm going to get in touch with the previous owner for more info. It's a long story but the person I bought the boat from didn't have a lot of information on the history. I don't think the engine has been opened up.
Morris Moody
1960 18' CC Continental
1959 21' CC Continental Hardtop
South Louisiana

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