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Moving Forward while in neutral

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rockhounder
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Moving Forward while in neutral

Post by rockhounder » Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:12 pm

I have noticed that our 18' 1953 Sportsman Utility with the KFM engine definitely moves forward with the lever in neutral. We move forward at perhaps 1-2 mph, with the RPM's around 1000 to 1500.

Weird, when we pulled out of the water, and I started the engine in neutral, looked and see that the prop is not moving. ???

The only thing I can think of is that the water being pulled through the water pump and forcibly expelled through the exhaust turns to steam, and gives thrust?

Anybody have the correct answer? Would love to figure this out.

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drrot
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Re: Moving Forward while in neutral

Post by drrot » Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:57 pm

Its probably spinning in the water. The water lubricates the cutlass bearing and the prop spins easier.
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Jim Staib
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1947 Penn Yan 12' Cartopper WXH474611
1950 Chris-Craft 22' Sportsman U-22-1532
1957 Chris-Craft 26' Sea Skiff SK-26-515
1968 Century 17' Resorter FG-68-174

rockhounder
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Re: Moving Forward while in neutral

Post by rockhounder » Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:20 pm

Ok, so is the gear lever pushing friction plates together? And if the gear lever which engages the plates to go forward in the vertical position (neutral-ish) do the engagement plates still kind of rub together (kind of like riding your clutch in a manual transmission car that the clutch does not completely dis-engage?)

If this is the case, I can see how that would result in wear. Is the gear box a dry clutch type, or is there some sort of viscous fluid clutching?

joanroy
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Re: Moving Forward while in neutral

Post by joanroy » Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:40 pm

Probably a wet clutch reverse gear. They don't really have a neutral. Just forward and reverse and a kinda in between. Not supposed to run in the kinda In between positions. CC recommended keeping the bow against the dock during warm up. Primitive technology. Their usually lubricated by your engine oil. And yes, the kinda in between neutral is like riding the clutch in a car.

rockhounder
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Re: Moving Forward while in neutral

Post by rockhounder » Sun Apr 24, 2016 4:50 pm

Well then, I am definitely going to make sure to be careful about the neutral position from now on.... I guess slow trolling is right out, with the lowest throttle position. In gear, our Chris Craft still makes 5 knots or so...

Another question, does anyone know why there is such a different sound when in reverse... kind of sounds like a slipping AC belt on my old Suburban. And steering control is practically zero when in reverse. I understand that, as there is no force other than the speed of the ambient water to push on the rudder, but are there any tips on how to do a 3 point reversal to get out of the docks area easily?

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Re: Moving Forward while in neutral

Post by jfrprops » Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:32 pm

"in gear our Chris Craft still makes 5 knots or so..." ? Clarify that for us. You don't mean that in what should be the correctly titled "sort of neutral" you are making 5 knts???!!!
As to your control issues...you have to master "back and Fill"......she is not going to have much of any steerage in reverse....nature of the beast....she may back to port slightly but you would have to be going way too fast to get real control in reverse. So you need to turn the wheel stop to stop and shift back and then forward going slow and easy.....you will get it.

Creep is, as reported in other posts, pretty much the norm for these old gears. I have a paragon from the 1940's and have to keep it engaged in forward with my knee half the time or she will slip out of gear....that sitch improves with usage....this is just old stuff with quirks. Go Boating.....slow and easy....

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

rockhounder
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Re: Moving Forward while in neutral

Post by rockhounder » Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:15 pm

We just got back from the lake, and have clarification.

When the boat is in forward gear, and throttle was brought back to lowest free setting, the rpms are around 1500, and the boat moves forward at a fast walking speed, definitely too fast for trout lures. If I forcibly (with very light force) try to push the throttle slower, it drops down to about 1000 rpm, but there must be residual spring binding force on the throttle cable, as it does not stay at the lowest possible, but you can see the steering wheel throttle slowly rotate on its own until the rpms are back up to 1500 or so.

joanroy
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Re: Moving Forward while in neutral

Post by joanroy » Mon Apr 25, 2016 3:10 am

Your boat is ideling to fast. I'd adjust it down to 750 RPM and when your control lever is pulled back it should hold there. Something's wrong with the linkage or adjustment. Look a the connection at the carb and see how it's set. Probably an adjustment screw or bolt where the throttle cable or rod connects to your carb. Difficult to advise without being able to see your throttle connection to carb set up.

It's normal for the old Reverse Gears to be noisy in reverse. They all do that. If it reverses and the boat goes backwards when engaged your good. Have Fun!

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Re: Moving Forward while in neutral

Post by Greg Wallace » Mon Apr 25, 2016 8:12 am

The extra noise in reverse is the planetary gears put into motion as a result of the reverse brake band stopping the drum. Extra parts moving around more sound. Normal.
Greg Wallace 23 Custom 22166 former Chris-Craft dealer Russells Point, Oh.

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Don Vogt
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Re: Moving Forward while in neutral

Post by Don Vogt » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:08 am

I believe "creep" is just part of the way the transmission works. Even for ones that are completely rebuilt and in excellent condition. Not really a true neutral. Likewise with a certain amount of "noise" in reverse.

I agree that your idle is most likely set rather high, but will most likely creep a little even at lower rpm.
1938 Chris Craft 17' Deluxe Runabout "Jennifer II"

rockhounder
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Re: Moving Forward while in neutral

Post by rockhounder » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:23 am

Thanks for your help guys!

I checked the position of the butterfly valve on the updraft carb, and it closes "click" to apparent full closed position, but motor still goes at around 1k rpm. I will probably take the carb apart, to see if there might be some varnish buildup, or other which is preventing the valve from truly closing all the way.

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Re: Moving Forward while in neutral

Post by jim g » Mon Apr 25, 2016 11:52 am

The butterfly needs to be open a hair. You probably need to adjust the idle jet screw more then the butterfly.

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