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Engine Oil - What Do We Use

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Pete DeVito
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Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by Pete DeVito » Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:59 pm

In the past I have always used Shell Rotella Straight SAE 30 motor oil. This week I started searching for the Rotella SAE 30 and only found Rotella Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oil SAE 30. I spoke to a well known engine person and he directed me to the API website to check out the API designations on the oil. I also went on the Shell website and only found the T1 product. Does anyone know if they still make Shell Rotella Heavy Duty Engine OIl SAE 30?
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tkhersom
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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by tkhersom » Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:48 am

I think I have read that some people are using the Rottela Diesel Engine Oil. I do not know what the makeup is that distinguishes it as Diesel oil, but I can not imagine there would be a problem with it.

All that being said, I run Brad Penn in all my boats. The main reason is the ZDDP levels.

Here is a link to a thread from 2013 when I was just learning about the removal of zinc from engine oil.

http://www.chris-craft.org/discussion/v ... f=6&t=8420
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1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
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Pete DeVito
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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by Pete DeVito » Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:00 pm

Thanks much for the reply.. I looked at all the different reviews again and I have settled on the Brad Penn 30w.
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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by kjhoffman » Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:28 am

Having recently had a reputable Machine Shop build a 283 for a project. The shop required Valvoline Racing oil 20-50 in the silver bottle. Fortunately it is available over the counter at NAPA stores at least in the state of Washington. Valvoline also supplies it in 30 weight. It retails for about $6.00 a quart.

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mfine
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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by mfine » Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:46 pm

I use 20-50 in my V8's as well.

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tkhersom
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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by tkhersom » Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:14 pm

mfine wrote:I use 20-50 in my V8's as well.
Why such a high viscosity? :?
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
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1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by mfine » Sat Jan 02, 2016 4:12 pm

tkhersom wrote:
mfine wrote:I use 20-50 in my V8's as well.
Why such a high viscosity? :?
Same reason as Mr. Hoffman, that is what the builder told me to use. 20w-50 plus zinc if needed.

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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by jim g » Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:11 pm

If your engine doesn't have a thermostat the use of a multi weight is not good. Most of the marine engines with out a thermostat run at around 120 degrees or less here in the south. Marine engines with a thermostat run at 140 or 160. Depends if its a fresh water or raw water cooling system. Cars run at 175 to 195. The newer the car the hotter the temp it runs at for emissions.

Take 20w50. If your oil temp does not get up to at least 210 degrees the viscosity is staying at 20 weight oil. Only when the oil temp reaches 210 does the viscosity change to 50 weight.

The lower the number the thinner the oil.

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mfine
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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by mfine » Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:58 pm

I disagree completely.

20w does not mean a viscosity of 20 at 0c, it means viscosity that is similar to straight 20 at the testing temp. The actual viscosity at freezing is quite high, around 1000-1100. As the temp goes up, the viscosity drops. Dramatically at first, then leveling out. It crosses the 50 line around 60-65c and by 100c or 210f it is well below 50, more like 20 or so.
Last edited by mfine on Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mfine
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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by mfine » Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:10 pm

I found a chart that may be helpful. The entire article is pretty informative, but you can scroll all the way down for a viscosity vs temp chart for various oils including 20w 50. At 120f (50c) and above, the differences start to shrink.

http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oi ... lained.htm

Note the graphs might be valid for a certain oil, but the curves will vary quite a bit between different oils of the same SAE rating.

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Carrpelll
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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by Carrpelll » Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:02 am

See below what I copied form the link.

Scientists discovered the use of polymers and the fact that these would expand with heat. VI Improvers are polymer material that expands as the oil warms up. This does NOT thicken the oil as is often stated. It merely slows down the rate at which oil thins out as the temperature rises. The base oil in use in a multi-grade (aka multi-seasonal) is the first number (such as 10W or 20W), where as the second grade is the viscosity achieved using the VI Improver (such as 40 or 50). 20W50 is a base oil of SAE 20W and the viscosity grade at running temperature is SAE 50.
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Peter M Jardine
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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by Peter M Jardine » Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:08 pm

I use multigrade oil, but I only use a real synthetic, in this case Amsoil ZRod, which has added zinc for older engines. A multigrade oil uses a viscosity modifier that makes it behave differently at cold temperatures than it's higher number. It helps with cold temperature starting, and certainly that is a reality up here on the great lakes. The second part of this is although the water in the engine may run at 120 degrees, or 150-60 degrees with a thermostat, on the upper oil ring on a piston, the temperature of the oil typically runs around 320F, because of it's proximity to the combustion chamber. Oil undergoes several cycles of temperature under use, and additives help stabilize performance. Old non detergent 30 weight oils of years back had no corrosion inhibitors, and a very short life in a marine engine. The acidity changed quickly and went after bearing surfaces, and since it was non detergent, it didn't get a lot of the dirt out of the engine, it just deposited it somewhere.

One caveat with multigrades, or any oil with additives. Those additives have a life, and when the viscosity improver in a multigrade is dissipated, the oil ends up some where between the first and second set of numbers.... leaning towards the first.
That's why I use synthetic group IV's ... they are stable over their lifespan compared to mineral stocks.

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Doug P
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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by Doug P » Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:37 pm

Peter....Nice to see you on the posts again :)

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dag55
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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by dag55 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:38 am

One thing to consider, when choosing oil, is wether the engine have hydraulic or mechanical valve lifters. With hydraulic lifters it is not recommended to use a high viscosity oil. In my fresh water cooled Chrysler 318's I use a 10W30 mineral, wich is what my motor guru (he have built / restored a couple of hundred marine V8 until today...) here in Stockholm recommend in all V8 with hydraulic lifters. He s tates that a 10W40 is what to use in a V8 wih mechanical lifters. He recommends mineral oil before syntetic, because it is known to hang on to surfaces better when the engine is cold. This recommendation is for standard performance engines, tuned or super charged is a complete different issue.
High viscosity oils is used in some high performance motors, old motor constructions with higher bearing play by not so fine manufacturing tolerances.
It is not said that a "thicker" oil gives more safety margins at high load, but may more likely cause bad lubrication at low load and at cold start.... The manufactor recommendation is allways what to look at in first hand...
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mfine
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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by mfine » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:30 am

Manufacturer recommendations for our boats are 50-90+ years out of date. Oils have changed quite a bit just in the last 10 years let alone 50, so what was best, or even just good enough back then may not be a good choice today.

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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by Peter M Jardine » Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:33 pm

Matt's right.... the big revolution took place in the late 80's and the 90's. Higher tolerances in engines, combined with higher combustion temperatures, turbos and all that stuff, made old oils do nasty things. Remember the sludging phenomena? That was mostly due to automotive oil not keeping up with the market.

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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by Ed Andrews » Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:58 am

Pete DeVito wrote:In the past I have always used Shell Rotella Straight SAE 30 motor oil. This week I started searching for the Rotella SAE 30 and only found Rotella Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oil SAE 30. I spoke to a well known engine person and he directed me to the API website to check out the API designations on the oil. I also went on the Shell website and only found the T1 product. Does anyone know if they still make Shell Rotella Heavy Duty Engine OIl SAE 30?
I was in a marine store yesterday in Cape May, NJ called Sea Gear yesterday. They provide equipment and supplies for the local fishing fleet. They had Rotella 30 in stock and told me they carry it for the older engines. So I guess it's still made and available.
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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by Moondocker » Tue May 24, 2016 7:31 am

In regards to the Shell Rotella products, I just spoke with Shell's tech support and explained what application I had and suggested Rotella 15w-40 as this product has a gasoline designation as well as diesel application. It's 40 weight at higher temps and the anti wear additive content is 1200 ppm vs. 900-1000 ppm with the Rotella T1 heavy duty straight grades. He mentioned this is a good application for older engines ie. hot rods, motorcycles etc. Shell still makes Rotella T1 heavy duty engine oil in a straight grade and it is NOT the same as the heavy duty diesel oil.
Still not sure what I should use in a KLC with a fresh rebuild. I am kind of skittish about the multi-vis.

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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by tkhersom » Tue May 24, 2016 8:02 am

Moondocker wrote:Still not sure what I should use in a KLC with a fresh rebuild. I am kind of skittish about the multi-vis.
Have you looked into "The Green Oil", Brad Penn :?:

Very happy with it so far. Using it in all my boats. :D

http://www.amref.com/Products/Branded-L ... -Oils.aspx

If you scroll down the page you will see they still have mono-grade oil and "BREAK IN" SAE 30 oil.
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

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mfine
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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by mfine » Tue May 24, 2016 12:23 pm

You can always add zddp to whatever oils you want to use as long as you don't mind a little math. I personally don't see the need to use only straight weight oil, that recommendation was put in the manual nearly a century ago without consideration of modern oils straight weight or not. I would be more concerned about detergent vs non (filter or no?) and synthetic vs dino for the gear.

Moondocker
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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by Moondocker » Tue May 24, 2016 4:12 pm

I am leaning toward the Rotella T1 diesel.

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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by Moondocker » Wed May 25, 2016 10:21 am

After some digging and advice from people on here, I have decided to use the Brad Penn 7120(1000 ppm of wear additive) 30 weight break in oil for 10 hours or so. Then use the 7139- 30 weight for the running oil. The company tech rep Ken really clarified the whole issue for me.
Thanks for all the good advice.
Mark

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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by cenger » Wed May 25, 2016 4:38 pm

Moondocker are you running an old flat head or a SBC? Is the 7139 the racing oil? Can you share what the rep shared with you?
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Moondocker
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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by Moondocker » Wed May 25, 2016 8:48 pm

I am running a rebuilt KLC. I believe the 7139 is hi-performance designed for older engines. The rep said that the 7139 is superior for flat cam tappet engines and it contains 1500 ppm of the anti wear additives. He also said that the oil should be changed prior to lay up in the fall rather than let all the bad stuff sit in it all winter (which I do already. I can supply his direct number if anyone would like it.

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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by sedandr » Mon May 30, 2016 3:33 pm

northwood boatworks is a registered dealer for brad penn products.

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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by Moondocker » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:13 pm

Summit Racing also has it. 7.49 per quart,

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tkhersom
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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by tkhersom » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:22 pm

Amazon is $6.63 per quart with free shipping if you buy a case. :D
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

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Doug P
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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by Doug P » Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:02 pm

tkhersom wrote:Amazon is $6.63 per quart with free shipping if you buy a case. :D
About the cost of the cheap wine I drink :shock:

Moondocker
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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by Moondocker » Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:10 pm

Good to know. Thanks

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Re: Engine Oil - What Do We Use

Post by Moondocker » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:45 am

In regards to oil capacity, the manual says something to the effect of between the high and low mark while running at approx. 2000 rpms, certain angle etc. How much should be added with an empty crankcase and transmission. I typically dump 5 quarts in and have never had an issue.

Thoughts?

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