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No Start After Lunch on Chesapeake

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Moosemeat
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No Start After Lunch on Chesapeake

Post by Moosemeat » Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:03 am

Last Saturday, we went for a cruise on the Chesapeake in my U-18. After a frustrating first season with the 6 volt system, the KFL in this boat now has been converted to 12 volt with a Pertronics ignition, with help from Dave Van Ness and George Hazzard. It starts at once and the GPS says we're making 20 knots at 2700 rpm.
It was a beautiful day with light wind a fairly calm water, so we decide to take my brother in-law on a trip down to the Bay Bridge, which my wife and I had done the previous Wednesday. We cruised for about 30 minutes when the crew demanded lunch. We anchored and ate for 30-40 minutes.
After lunch, the boat started, ran for about two minutes and conked out. It would spin but not restart. I did some checks:
Fuel in filter bulb-yes
Spark-yes
Gas leaks-no
Wires disconnected-no
Fuses-OK
Still won't start. We're drifting in the Bay; brother in-law is getting panicy. I called George. He suggested that the fuel vent pipe may be clogged and to remove the gas cap to see if there is a vacuum. I do: no hiss of air. He also suggested removing the spark arrestors and seeing if there's gas in the carburetor bulbs, indicating flooding. I do, but they are dry as a bone w/no gassy smell.
At this point, I know it's a gas issue, so I manually pump fuel into the bulb until it won't pump anymore. It starts, and runs perfectly for the rest of the day. I tell my brother in-law that this sort of thing is what makes classic boating an adventure. The look on his face tells me he isn't buying it.
So what caused this? Why would the fuel retreat from the carbs in 30-40 minutes? We have done stops like this before with no issues. When I started it at home the next day to flush the salt out, it caught with just a touch of the starter; no priming required.
Was it; wave action from passing boats? A warm engine? The fact that I had filled the tank 40 minutes earlier? Bad ju-ju from brother in-law? I not worried unduly about this, as I now know how to resolve it, but I'd love to hear if this has happened to anyone else. Thanks.

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RRGadow
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Re: No Start After Lunch on Chesapeake

Post by RRGadow » Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:37 pm

Maybe the ole girl wasn't ready to leave that spot yet. :D
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mfine
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Re: No Start After Lunch on Chesapeake

Post by mfine » Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:36 pm

Besides the fuel exiting the carbs so fast, why was the fuel pump unable to refil them?

joanroy
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Re: No Start After Lunch on Chesapeake

Post by joanroy » Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:50 pm

If you had old gas in the tank before you refueled, you may have sucked up a little ethanol water. This happened to me after adding fuel. Both engines died ten minutes apart and wouldn't restart until I drained the Racors and let it sit awhile. Ethanol is bad news for boats.

jim g
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Re: No Start After Lunch on Chesapeake

Post by jim g » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:30 pm

Its called vapor lock. The heat in the bilge turned the fuel in the line from the tank to vapor. You can google fuel vapor lock and learn more about it.

jfrprops
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Re: No Start After Lunch on Chesapeake

Post by jfrprops » Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:24 pm

The Vapor lock idea may be the problem.....but bad ju ju and "Old girl not ready to leave that spot"....are just as likely!

But Hey!....you "WENT BOATING"........and any time you can panic an in-law...go for it....

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

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tkhersom
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Re: No Start After Lunch on Chesapeake

Post by tkhersom » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:06 am

jfrprops wrote:The Vapor lock idea may be the problem.....but bad ju ju and "Old girl not ready to leave that spot"....are just as likely!

But Hey!....you "WENT BOATING"........and any time you can panic an in-law...go for it....

John in Va.
Ya that's exactly what I was thinking. :D

Interesting, I hit about 20kts the other day in American Beauty and if I recall right I was turning about 2700 rpm. Only trouble is I was spinning twin W's.
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
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Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

joanroy
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Re: No Start After Lunch on Chesapeake

Post by joanroy » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:13 am

Jim G, thanks for reminding me about the possibility of vapor lock. I did research it on line and discovered that ethanol fuel is more prone to vaporizing. I thought water in my gas was the problem , but now I'm leaning toward the vapor lock theory. Another possible cause could be sticky back flow preventers. Runs fine at the dock so I'll have to go for another cruise before the season ends and see what happens.

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tkhersom
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Re: No Start After Lunch on Chesapeake

Post by tkhersom » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:53 am

Speaking of Ethanol problems I just got an additive from a friend who owns "Finest Kind Boatyard". http://fkby.com/

Mark can't say enough good about this stuff, uses it all season long. I bought some this week and am going to start using it in most everything, especially the boats.

http://www.priproducts.com/marine_performance.cfm
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

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tkhersom
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Re: No Start After Lunch on Chesapeake

Post by tkhersom » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:55 am

PS: Glad to have gotten an explanation of "Moosemeat" at Dora this spring. :mrgreen:

It was great to have meet so many of you. Hope we can make it again this year.
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

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mfine
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Re: No Start After Lunch on Chesapeake

Post by mfine » Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:44 pm

It could be vapor lock, but that generally requires vapor in the fuel line before the fuel pump, or a hot fuel pump. If this is a recurring issue, look at how your fuel lines are run and make sure the line to the fuel pump is exposed to minimal heat. Also watch your running temp of the engine. Most of our boat engines run very cool, cooler than cars, for a variety of reasons. If you have high temps in the engine box take a look at your cooling system. You may not have enough flow due to a failing pump or a restriction in the system. A properly cooled marine engine with a well run fuel line should not have vapor lock issues except in extreme heat or high altitudes.

The sacrilegious answer is an electric fuel pump located away from heat back by the fuel tank which is why modern cars and boats don't have vapor lock anymore. With cool fuel getting to the pump, it can push any vapor through the system and refil the carbs before you wear down your battery or burn out the starter with hopeless cranking.

davidvn
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Re: No Start After Lunch on Chesapeake

Post by davidvn » Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:58 am

Hi
I think the needle may have stuck in the seat in the carb. This can happen from a jolt from a wave jamming the needle into the seat or from some dirt holding the needle from moving freely. Either one can resolve itself. I don't think it is vapor lock as the fuel bowl is well vented. If it occurs again you can take the plug out of the fuel bowl and pump the hand primer , If you don't get fuel tap the carb gently and try again. If it becomes a chronic problem the needle and seat should be replaced.
Good luck and feel free to give a call.

farupp
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Re: No Start After Lunch on Chesapeake

Post by farupp » Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:44 pm

I agree with davidvn. I have had that happen. Tapping the top of the float bowl near where the fuel line connects to the float bowl solved the problem for me.
Frank Rupp
1959 22-foot Sea Skiff Ranger
283 Flywheel Forward engine

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mfine
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Re: No Start After Lunch on Chesapeake

Post by mfine » Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:40 pm

Doesn't the KFL have three carbs? It would be a strange coincidence that the float valves all got stuck at the same time, no?

jim g
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Re: No Start After Lunch on Chesapeake

Post by jim g » Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:05 pm

KFL has 2. KBL is 3.

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