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Oil bowing out of motor

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Savannah
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Oil bowing out of motor

Post by Savannah » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:47 am

After a year of trouble shooting we have finally got the 283 in my Cavalier running ok but there is a big problem. At around 3,000 rpms oil blows out of the oil filler/engine vent. The motor has not been run hard in about 2 years. I changed the oil a while ago and it looks pretty black.
Has anyone seen this problem befor.
I'm sorry for any spelling and or grammer mistakes it's been a long day.
Thank You
Scott

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evansjw44
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Blow By

Post by evansjw44 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:39 am

That is one of the symptoms of blow by. Blow by is where the piston rings don't seal to the cylinder walls very well. An engine that has sat for a long time often ends up with the piston ring stuck in their grooves leading to excessive oil consumpion and blow by. You can test for this with a leak down test.
Jim Evans

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Post by farupp » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:01 am

Scott: How long have you run the engine after putting it back into service? It may just need some more time at operating temperatures to free up all the piston rings.

Other things to look for are too much oil in the crankcase (I learned this by overfilling my 283 with oil) and a clogged PVC valve if you have one.

As the bow of the boat comes up as the rpms increase, the engine is also at a different angle and the oil in the crankcase flows towards the back (stern) of the engine which is also where the filler is located. I found that if there is even a half a quart too much oil in the crankcase, it will blow out of the filler.

Mine did exactly the same thing at 3000 rpm. On the positive side, the oil spray rustproofed the metal parts in the bilge!
Frank Rupp
1959 22-foot Sea Skiff Ranger
283 Flywheel Forward engine

Savannah
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Post by Savannah » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:44 pm

Thank you for the info. I have not run it very long at hot temps. The only way to run the temp up is to close the 1/4 turn water intake valve, to almost full closed. The water temp in the Sacramento Delta, right now is about 50 degrees.
I'll check the oil level. The bow of the boat really rises when throttled up. The good news is that we were cruising at 2,800 rpms and 12 knots (17mph +or-) and the motor has a wonderful rumble.
The prestolite is a fickle little bugger, however.
Thanks again for the information. This site has been great help. I'm glad I found it and all of you.
Scott

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Post by jfrprops » Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:08 pm

Savannah,

You get the "John in Va." PRIZE for telling the truth about your RPM/speed situation.....I swear there are folks that either over state that entirely, or run their engines at RPM's I would never attempt.....

Neat.

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

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evansjw44
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Omission

Post by evansjw44 » Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:41 pm

I should have pointed you to the PVC loop first, maybe. If the PVC vent that runs from the intake manifold (actually, from under the intake manifold through an oil separator) to the carb is blocked by a stuck PCV valve then you might see the symptomd hyou described. Mabye you should check that out first.
Jim Evans

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Re: Omission

Post by Savannah » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:07 pm

evansjw44 wrote:I should have pointed you to the PVC loop first, maybe. If the PVC vent that runs from the intake manifold (actually, from under the intake manifold through an oil separator) to the carb is blocked by a stuck PCV valve then you might see the symptomd hyou described. Mabye you should check that out first.
Didn't even think to check that. Just pull it apart and clean with carb cleaner?
Thank you.

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Post by Savannah » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:16 pm

jfrprops wrote:Savannah,

You get the "John in Va." PRIZE for telling the truth about your RPM/speed situation.....I swear there are folks that either over state that entirely, or run their engines at RPM's I would never attempt.....

Neat.

John in Va.
Thanks John.
Although the small blocks I own now, Chevelle & Mid 60's GM trucks, have seen 5,500 to 6,000 rpms.
I would never push the boat motor that hard. It seems that I would loose the litle tourque it has do to cavitation. Not to mention the embarrassment of being towed back to the dock, with a blown motor.

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long periods of non-ops

Post by THE RAZZ » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:46 am

"The motor has not been run hard in about 2 years."
Does this mean the engine is run about once a week but its been two years since you went full throttle for extended times? Or, has the engine been sitting for about 2 yrs. and not turned over?

Not wanting to go off topic, but we should note general aviation airplanes and our boats often have a similar use profile. Engines sit for extended periods and then operate under heavy loads. The concern in both cases is whats going on inside the engine in areas where you can't possibly see. There are many areas to worry about but rings seizing can be an issue. The other concern is corrosion on the the cam shaft lobes.

What to do?
Some like to "smoke" & "pickle" the engine when it will sit for long periods.
One method-After the last time the engine is run before storage, run the engine at a fast idle (1500RPM). With the flame arrestor removed, using an oil squirt can (30wt engine oil), squirt oil in the carb making it smoke (massive exhaust smoke) until the engine stumbles badly (-500RPM) with the throttle open running rough and missing from the massive oil injection into the intake. Turn the key off while the engine is barely able to run.

DO NOT ALLOW ANYONE TO TURN ENGINE OVER NOW UNTIL THE NEXT TIME YOU INTEND USE THE BOAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO EXCEPTIONS, EVER!

The engine is "pickled."

Rings won't seize in the cylinders now coated with oil. Valves&guides won't seize when now pickled in oil. The cam lobes will be coated with oil and should be safe from internal corrosion.

Note-
During the first startup of a pickled engine, the engine will smoke massively for about a minute while burning the oil from the "pickling."

One last thing-
Don't pickle/unpickle an engine where there is a crowd. People get really upset when gassed (by engine smoke or pepper spray) for some reason . Ha!
1942 17' barrelback 71923
1987 21' CC Stinger

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Al Benton
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Post by Al Benton » Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:35 pm

Jerry, good to hear from you. I've been following your advice for years now and it works very well.

Next Black Friday I'm bringing a pickled small block Chevy on a grocery cart. Then 10 seconds before the doors swing open I'll start it; Should have the place to myself...

Truth is, I don't go shopping on Black Friday. This year we went out on the cruiser instead. Now the engine is pickled and winterized ready for a long winters nap.
Al
Member - Executive Team

THE RAZZ
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black friday

Post by THE RAZZ » Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:46 pm

Good to see you too, Al. Hope all is well. Want to hitch a ride on your cruiser someday. Of course a romp in the Stinger or BB is always available here for you. Cheers. Avoid Black Friday like the (black) plague. Ha!
1942 17' barrelback 71923
1987 21' CC Stinger

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evansjw44
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Pickle??

Post by evansjw44 » Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:50 pm

That wouldn't be a word I'd use for putting an engine to bed for the winter. But what I do is pull off the water pump drive belt(so I don't scorch the impellor) start it up and oil it down. Now here's the catch. There's a lot of different choices for oil down. Barhdal was the oil down of choice and it was sold as "upper lube". You can still buy it but Barhdal sells it as fuel conditioner. Black can. You can use Marvel Mystrey Oil. I've used that since Barhdal made thier marketing change. Boat store folks say they have the the new "same" stuff but differnt packaging. Sone like 10 WGT motor oil. There are others. Note that if you have an almost new engine this is very important as the cylinder wall are not what I would call "seasoned". If you havae a V8 you need to be sure you dump oil down BOTH sides of the carb. Otherwise, one side might be dry and the other well oiled and you might just have a valve crash.

Lastly, when I wake the engines up for the season its easy does it; low RPM for the first half hour. Not hard for the second hour, under 3000 (V8, 2200 6cyl). These parts need to work back into lubed up and free. If you push you just might get a surprise.
Jim Evans

Savannah
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Re: long periods of non-ops

Post by Savannah » Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:19 pm

THE RAZZ wrote:"The motor has not been run hard in about 2 years."
Does this mean the engine is run about once a week but its been two years since you went full throttle for extended times? Or, has the engine been sitting for about 2 yrs. and not turned over?

Not wanting to go off topic, but we should note general aviation airplanes and our boats often have a similar use profile. Engines sit for extended periods and then operate under heavy loads. The concern in both cases is whats going on inside the engine in areas where you can't possibly see. There are many areas to worry about but rings seizing can be an issue. The other concern is corrosion on the the cam shaft lobes.

What to do?
Some like to "smoke" & "pickle" the engine when it will sit for long periods.
One method-After the last time the engine is run before storage, run the engine at a fast idle (1500RPM). With the flame arrestor removed, using an oil squirt can (30wt engine oil), squirt oil in the carb making it smoke (massive exhaust smoke) until the engine stumbles badly (-500RPM) with the throttle open running rough and missing from the massive oil injection into the intake. Turn the key off while the engine is barely able to run.

DO NOT ALLOW ANYONE TO TURN ENGINE OVER NOW UNTIL THE NEXT TIME YOU INTEND USE THE BOAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO EXCEPTIONS, EVER!


The engine is "pickled."

Rings won't seize in the cylinders now coated with oil. Valves&guides won't seize when now pickled in oil. The cam lobes will be coated with oil and should be safe from internal corrosion.


Note-
During the first startup of a pickled engine, the engine will smoke massively for about a minute while burning the oil from the "pickling."

One last thing-
Don't pickle/unpickle an engine where there is a crowd. People get really upset when gassed (by engine smoke or pepper spray) for some reason . Ha!
Sorry I should have clearified a few things. The motor has been run a few times o mobth in the last two years. As we would trouble shoot it we would take it out and run it. Find out we had another problem and then have at it again the next month. It just was never able to see higher than 2200 rpms. Now the motor runs great.
Do you know of a good boat mover in the bay. I want to move it down to Moss Landing. 25 minutes from home as apposed to 3 hours from home now.
Thank You
Scott

THE RAZZ
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hauling your boat and Marvel Mystery Oil

Post by THE RAZZ » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:52 pm

First, Jim is the best authority on this and many other subjects. I've made note of his how-to recommendations.

That said, two chemical engineers here insist (one with Chevron here for 30 yrs the other from Shell) there is NO corrosion protection from Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO). Sorry, but with my (extremely) limited knowledge of petroleum chemisty, I couldnt repeat their evidence for love nor money. MMO came up in our discussions re aircraft engines and corrosion issues.
Perhaps a petroleum chemist here on The Buzz can shed light on Marvel Mystery Oil and its corrosion inhibitors (or not).
1942 17' barrelback 71923
1987 21' CC Stinger

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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:52 pm

Be alert to the symptoms of a rusted intake manifold, as the ones with the EGR crossover (I think your model has this) can rust and even a small pinhole will pressurize the oil crankcase and LOOK like blowby. I can assure you, a rusted hole in the intake will blow one heck of a lot more oil and fumes than blowby ever would, we had one guy who had a dipstick blown right off the motor. His finding was a small hole in the intake manifold, and the SBC motors are certainly not immune to this, as many such instances have been reported. You can take a piece of very thin stainless steel shim stock and just block off the EGR passage, as they really do NOTHING for us in a boat other than heat up the carb and why in the blazes would you ever want to do that. In addition, I think the EGR system contrubutes to motors with closed cooling running too hot, as the EGR is just heating up the motor and the heat exchanger is being asked to fight it and cool the motor down, when the heat should just be dumped out the exhaust pipe.

my two cents.

best,

Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

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