Active Active   Unanswered Unanswered

Cockpit floor

Although not a Division, this area is for information unique to Chris-Craft Constellations.

Moderators: Don Ayers, Al Benton, Don Vogt

srlittin
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:50 pm
Contact:

Cockpit floor

Post by srlittin » Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:57 pm

The rear floor on our 1957 30' constellation looks to have double floor boards,totaling about 1 1/4- 1 1/2 thick above the rib supports . Is this normal, or has someone just placed a second over the top? Also the engine and rear hatches have spacers under them.
Thanks in advance
Steve

joanroy
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by joanroy » Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:29 am

Spacers under the hatches are a definite indication of a decking over the original deck. Although not original, maybe not the worst thing, unless the original was rotted and they added a layer to cover up rot. Most of these old boats have gone thru changes and modifications over the years. Some good, some bad. I like originality but if a change or modification was done nicely, I can live with it. How does your deck look?

srlittin
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by srlittin » Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:49 pm

Thanks for the info. That is also my thoughts as well. The top floor looks good but needs refinishing,and is probably 10+ years old. There is some rott in the rear corners, around the drains on the bottom layer. As we all know, it never gets better by its self.
Steve

srlittin
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by srlittin » Fri Nov 07, 2014 9:08 pm

Well a week has gone by, so I had better up date . A small job of cleaning the bilge, turns into
Lifting out the engines to make it easier, then I find that the insulation under the floor is waterlogged and falling down. Upon removal it was found that the floor was also rotten. So oh well, out it comes.
Attachments
image.jpg

User avatar
tkhersom
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:56 pm
Location: Edgecomb, Maine
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by tkhersom » Sun Nov 09, 2014 7:37 am

There are so many hidden spots on these cruisers. :shock:

I have been fortunate so far and have not found much that I did not expect.

Good luck!
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

srlittin
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by srlittin » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:27 pm

So it is a month since I last updated. Started with a winters fix list, fix the leak at the port transom, paint and tidy the bilge area, tidy up the wiring from a previous owner, update and rewire the shore power, replace the stern tube hose clamps and hoses etc, repaint the topsides, tidy and paint up the engines, replace the rotten exhaust pipes, etc, etc.
Well, the gas tanks are out, ready to be painted, lower half of the transom is off, and new white oak transom frame has been steamed and fitted. Bilges are cleaned, ready for paint. No signs of rotten wood or frames needing replacement. It is amazing to find paint under all the oil and dirt.
Over half of the floor frame work was rotten and the gas tanks were supporting the rear floor, so another trip to the wood shop for more white oak.
Took out the rudder supports, half of the bolts were eaten away from electrolysis, took out the port stern tube, all the screws either broken or rotted off, none came out. Starboard side most came out, 3 rotted off. Unbolted the prop support bolts, one at a time , and they were all good.
A little history on the boat, one owner on the Great Lakes until 2009, then the boat went to Seattle, and spent 4 years in salt water, not moving much from the dock.
Most of the transom rott looks to be from where the exhaust pipe was leaking, also it was leaking onto the stern tube.

So now for the questions,

Where the stern tube screws are rotted off, is it possible to drill out the broken screws and thru bolt to the outside of the hull, or drill new holes between the old, and affix with new screws?

What are people using for under floor insulation these days? Knowing that this is a humid area, is modern foam or styrene materials suitable?

Wiring. A previous owner has wired the boat 12 volt, with 2 battery selector switches, port battery running the port engine, starboard battery, running the starboard, etc. with the bilge pump, radio, and nav lights bypassing the battery switches. My question is, Is it normal to bypass a cut off switch?


Thanks and pictures to follow
Steve

srlittin
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by srlittin » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:38 pm

Following, a picture of the lower transom frame
Attachments
image.jpg
Transom port corner leak

srlittin
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by srlittin » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:42 pm

New lower white oak frame, steamed, and fitted
Attachments
image.jpg
Transom frame

srlittin
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by srlittin » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:48 pm

A better view
Attachments
image.jpg

joanroy
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by joanroy » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:13 am

I did a very similar repair on my 36 foot Double Stateroom years ago. I basically gutted the cockpit, replaced the bottom third of my transom, replaced fuel tanks, redid struts, replaced shaft logs, refastened rudders, replaced cockpit frame and deck and rewired the whole boat, plus a lot of other stuff, so I know what your up against? It a big job. Refastening my shaft logs wasn't a problem because I replaced them with new Buck Algonquin logs with a different screw pattern and bedded with 5200 . I wouldn't thru bolt your logs. Figure a way to get good fastening and bed and screw as original. Maybe bigger screws and additional holes? Forget the insulation. Half lap and sister the bottom of your transom ribs. All electric should go thru the battery switches. You should have separate starting banks and house banks. I threw all my wiring over the side and started over. Use all bronze fasteners and screw the hell out of everything. Get the cockpit water tight to keep rain water from getting in and rotting it out again. Fresh water from above does more damage than salt water from below. Take your time and have fun.

User avatar
tkhersom
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:56 pm
Location: Edgecomb, Maine
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by tkhersom » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:45 am

I have been fortunate not to have to do this much wood work (yet), however I did have AB re-wired by professionals last year. It did not come out the way I visualized it, but it is beautifully done.

I have one battery feeding both engines for starting and two house batteries. These banks can be put together through my battery switch if I need more cranking power. I also have a charging isolator. (I also have a galvanic isolator but that has to do with stray electricity not charging.)

Your bilge pump(s) need to bypass your battery switch. They should be fused but live at all times. When you are away from your boat the battery switch should be in the off position. If your pumps are fed through the battery switch the result will not be good. Everything else should not only go though the battery switch but also a circuit breaker block. (or at least a fuse panel).

Keep up the good work! :mrgreen:
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

User avatar
evansjw44
Posts: 1865
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:46 am
Location: Grosse Pointe Farms, MI
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by evansjw44 » Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:16 am

The current requirements for bilge pump wiring is for the pump to be wired directly to the battery with no cut-off switch. I had a disagreement with my surveyor over this. On my boat, everything has a switch to disconnect it from its source and every thing has its appropriately sized fuse. My sea skiff is dry so I only leave the pump on auto when I will be away for a few days. I also disagree with connections being made to the battery. Only one lead should on the battery and that goes to starter.
Last edited by evansjw44 on Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jim Evans

User avatar
tkhersom
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:56 pm
Location: Edgecomb, Maine
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by tkhersom » Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:11 am

Jim makes a good clarification here. :D

I have three pumps.

The two up front are mooring bumps. These are wired through switches that have three options "auto-off-on". These switches do not get their power through the battery switch, thus allowing the auto position to work at all times.

The third pump is mounted in the stern in case water accumulates under way. This stern pump is just wired automatic with no shut off. I have never seen this one pump water by the way.
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

boat_art
Posts: 556
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by boat_art » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:58 pm

I always have the bilge pump directly wired to battery, through a fuse, whether its a wood hull or ay other material. I see no advantage to wiring it through any disconnect switches.
http://www.boatartgallery.com
1956 CC Connie 47'
1959 Caulkins bartender
1965 Cheoy Lee Frisco Flyer
1953 Chris Craft Holiday
1941 Chris Craft Deluxe
Plus 8-12 customer boats at any time
God don't count the days spent messing around in wood boats.

joanroy
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by joanroy » Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:01 pm

The only time I turn off my two main battery off switches is when I store the boat in the off season. If a boat is wired correctly and the bilge pumps are wired direct automatic with a manual override why shut off the battery switch? That would be kind of like pulling your house meter socket when you leave for the day.

User avatar
tkhersom
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:56 pm
Location: Edgecomb, Maine
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by tkhersom » Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:24 pm

joanroy wrote:The only time I turn off my two main battery off switches is when I store the boat in the off season. If a boat is wired correctly and the bilge pumps are wired direct automatic with a manual override why shut off the battery switch? That would be kind of like pulling your house meter socket when you leave for the day.
That is interesting. I shut off my battery switch every time I put the boat away after use. I guess I consider it extra insurance in case I have inadvertently left something on that will drain the batteries or should something short out unexpectedly. Just seems safer to me.

I also close my Sea-cocks.
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

joanroy
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by joanroy » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:05 pm

Doesn't hurt to turn the switches off but I figure if I leave something on my charger will maintain the batteries and if something shorts the breaker will trip. My wiring , both AC and DC ,is all redone to current standards and it is safe. I leave battery switches and breakers on, but I'm not recommending it if your not 100 percent sure. I could have a bilge pump failure, but I have one main pump with two back ups. Besides, the fridge has to stay on to keep the beer cold.

User avatar
tkhersom
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:56 pm
Location: Edgecomb, Maine
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by tkhersom » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:12 pm

I thought of this after my last post and your response confirms my suspicions. :?

My boats are kept on moorings not slips, thus I have no sure power to keep batteries topped off.

See there is always more information that makes everyone's situation a little different.
Attachments
ModDSC07005.jpg
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

joanroy
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by joanroy » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:20 pm

Ya, you'd need a long cord. Sorry about the warm beer.

User avatar
evansjw44
Posts: 1865
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:46 am
Location: Grosse Pointe Farms, MI
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by evansjw44 » Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:35 pm

Topping off batteries with the charger reminds me that I leave my charger OFF unless I am cruising or have some reason to think my batteries need charging, like house usage for a cruise. I get 8 - 10 years out of a set of batteries by not having them on a charger all the time. I don't take them out of the boat for the winter. I don't disconnect them. Occasionally I go aboard and put the charger on if I'm going to work for a few hours. I see more boaters buying batteries ever 3 - 5 years that leave their chargers on all the time. I think the chargers are cooking the batteries to death. Unless you have a 12 volt only fridge or the like your batteries don't need constant charging.
Jim Evans

boat_art
Posts: 556
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:09 pm
Location: United States
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by boat_art » Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:45 pm

Good plan Jim but I think 3-5 years is plenty. I would replace them after that time anyway. Its a risk I wont take and I recommend the same to my customers. We are dealing with antiques and I just believe they are worth the investment of constant charging and continuously available bilge pump power.
http://www.boatartgallery.com
1956 CC Connie 47'
1959 Caulkins bartender
1965 Cheoy Lee Frisco Flyer
1953 Chris Craft Holiday
1941 Chris Craft Deluxe
Plus 8-12 customer boats at any time
God don't count the days spent messing around in wood boats.

srlittin
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by srlittin » Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:51 pm

Thanks Guys for all the replies.
Good ideas from all. The other boat that Susan and I own is a 1953 22' Express Cruiser, when I rewired it, I used a single battery selector for the 2 batteries. With this in mind, I wired that boat with a single battery selector. For the bilge pumps I wired these independent of the battery selector direct to the battery. During the winter a couple of years ago, I fitted a small automotive battery disconnect to allow the pumps to be turned off while the boat is out of the water in storage for the winter. This boat however doesn't have the battery usage as the Constellation.

Over the last couple of years on this boat, although I have had access to shore power, I haven't used it for a battery charger. Instead I have been using a 1.7 amp solar panel battery maintainer. This has been easy to install as I have the solar panel sitting on the dock, hidden in a garden, with a small disconnect on the stern of the boat. This keeps both batteries well topped up. I also used this all this year on the Constellation as the shore power wiring looked suspect, and we wanted to keep the boat in the water for the summer season.

Therefore with out the shore power, the only issue was warm beer until the ice cooled it down.

Also a rear bilge pump will be fitted.

Steve Littin

srlittin
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by srlittin » Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:58 pm

It has been a busy winter here in Ohio, so much boat work and so little time, however we now have made some good progress on the stern and bilge work. Bilge was dried out and scrubbed with Dawn dishwasher liquid and left to dry. Sealed and bilge painted.
Transom got the final plank fitted today and now the time for about 800+ plugs.
Also found the cabin bulkhead, where the ice box was, is rotted out and needs replacing. As the starboard engine gearshift is bolted to this, now have the reason that the gearshift was soft, as the brackets were not supported tight.
So some questions.
I would like to fit a swim platform to the transom. What is the best way to afix this? Any ideas or photos welcome

The woodwork across the rear transom deck has a groove between the boards for sealer. Was this sealed in white, or black as the floor is, or mahogany color sealer?

Any ideas for an anchor box, anchor rope locker for the bow area.

As always, thanks in advance.
Steve
Attachments
image.jpg
Transom & starboard new planking

srlittin
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by srlittin » Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:07 pm

View of a clean bilge, ready for the floor to be refitted
Attachments
image.jpg

User avatar
tkhersom
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:56 pm
Location: Edgecomb, Maine
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by tkhersom » Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:50 am

Looks GREAT!

Here are some pics of my brackets with the platform off and on. I would think there are some of these out there from boats that have been dismantled. I always start my search for anything Chris Craft with Jim Staib. If he does not have it he usually knows where to look. http://www.finewoodboats.com/
Hailport.jpg
Brackets
There are also blocks attached to the transom supporting the ends of the platform near the exhaust ports.
ModDSC06968.jpg
Just after launch.
CrashOMatic.jpg
Now I know why they are called Crash O Matics
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

User avatar
tkhersom
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:56 pm
Location: Edgecomb, Maine
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by tkhersom » Mon Jan 19, 2015 7:05 am

As for the Anchor locker the two chrome pieces inboard of the stanchions allow my rope to go into the locker below. You can also see where the anchor is supposed to mount on the deck. My anchor does not fit so I am trying to decide on getting a different anchor or moving the mounts. Just has not come to the top of the list yet, if you know what I mean.
CompDSC07102.jpg
You can just make out the door to the rope locker in the bulkhead.
148809_4452782233777_1798297103_n.jpg
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

User avatar
tkhersom
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:56 pm
Location: Edgecomb, Maine
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by tkhersom » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:52 pm

Here is what my line locker looks like with the door open.
Attachments
Anchorlocker.jpg
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

srlittin
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by srlittin » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:50 pm

Troy
Thanks for the info. A couple of questions. 1, Are the swim platform brackets made from brass/ bronze, steel, or stainless? 2, With the anchor rope falling into the forward storage area, do you get much, if any water into that area? Our Constellation being 30ft, the forward berth is a vee berth with a small forward locker. Maybe to tight verses your larger Constellation.

Thanks also for the complements as well. As you also know these jobs take more time than anticipated.

User avatar
tkhersom
Posts: 983
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:56 pm
Location: Edgecomb, Maine
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by tkhersom » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:49 am

My brackets are bronze. I think SS would work well also.

The Platform itself is make in two pieces (I assume this was done for handling purposes). The inner grate piece and the outer frame.
unnamed %283%29.jpg
American Beauty swim platform next to Yorktown
unnamed %283%29.jpg (30.25 KiB) Viewed 6161 times
I have never used the line in the anchor locker so I can not tell you how that works. Maybe I will this summer.

Troy in ANE
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

joanroy
Posts: 686
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Cockpit floor

Post by joanroy » Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:35 am

Steve,
Nice piece of work on the cockpit and stern of your Constellation. I see you decided to go for it and do the major repair. It is very labor intensive , but just keep picking away and it always gets done eventually. Thanks for saving another American Beauty.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests