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front frame u22 sportsman

Framing, planking and fairing. Repair, or reconstruction. If it's hull related, you'll find it here.

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HappenMaker
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front frame u22 sportsman

Post by HappenMaker » Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:28 pm

would it be better to replace this fram or repair it as is. this frame conects to all the outer planks
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RRGadow
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Re: front frame u22 sportsman

Post by RRGadow » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:13 pm

Why not do it right and replace it....I wouldn't want to go thru all that work just to know that that frame was not replaced.
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tkhersom
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Re: front frame u22 sportsman

Post by tkhersom » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:57 am

Pandora's Box!

Where to stop? I would think with the access you have now, replace it.

Looks like the bow stem would be the one I would be struggling with. Not real bad, but a few cracks. Should it be done while she is open and accessible or maybe put some epoxy in the cracks? That one is a tougher call for me. :?
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parroteyes
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Re: front frame u22 sportsman

Post by parroteyes » Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:17 am

I can't tell what you are doing. If you are replacing the bottom but retaining the side planks above the chine, getting that frame out would be a problem.

Professional restorers with their reputations on the line (and working on your dime) probably would re plank the sides as well.

They are of course right but that can be repaired. Start by cutting out the splits with a vertical cut about 6" from the keel. Make a new duplicate of the piece cut out. Do the same on the other side. Now make a "sister". I made mine with th grain running horizontal and the "sister" runs over the keel serving both the port and starboard splices. It is aft of the frames.

In my case the lifting ring attached at this frame so my "sister" also replaced the lifting ring mounting piece.

I am satisfied that the repair is actually stronger than the original design and I did not have to remove the topside planks.

I do have pictures, somewhere 8-(
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steve bunda
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Re: front frame u22 sportsman

Post by steve bunda » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:57 am

The repair or replace Conundrum, Replace forward side frames involves , remove side planks for access to batten nails, maybe remove some decking for screw access . Now you can copy and replace the frames.
But, now that the side planks are off the boat you could remove the aft planks and restack all. But what the heck , why put old side planks back on because for a little more cost or time, new mahogany planks would correct plank issues.
Install new bottom , flip boat back , decks look a little iffy, so replace compete decking to match new side planks.

Or you could repair the crack in a number of methods. It's up to you .

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parroteyes
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Re: front frame u22 sportsman

Post by parroteyes » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:35 am

Looking more closely at your picture (on my computer instead of my phone) I see that the lifting ring mount is aft of the frames in question.

So, what I'm saying is:

Cut off the badly split section of the frames with a vertical cut,

Make new replacements for the cut off pieces (grain oriented parallel to bottom).

Replace the 2 piece lifting eye mount with a new single piece mount (grain oriented horizontal) large enough to serve as a sister or butt block for the splices you'll have in the frames.

I always try to figure out why the original construction failed.

In the case of this frame I thought these things contributed to the excessive splitting:

The grain of the frame is not parallel to the bottom because it is one piece, not spliced at the chine.
Essentially the entire load on the lifting ring is carried by two screws, one in each frame into the gripe.
The lifting eye mount is not well enough incorporated into the boat's structure. It isn't fastened to either the chines or the keel.
The lifting eye is subject to abuse, being used to pull the boat, or tie it to a trailer or dock for instance, when it was probably intended for lifting only.

Once the fasteners loosen additional abuse just makes everything worse, eventually splitting the frames.

My new lifting eye mount goes up to the chines where it is notched to transfer lifting load to the chines, reducing the load on the screws that fasten the frame to the gripe. Those are the screws that have zero chance of holding the loads without splitting the frame. (The big ones in your picture)
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Re: front frame u22 sportsman

Post by HappenMaker » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:50 am

ok thanks for all the imput. here are few other pics as i have now decided to go with 5200 bottom. my first question is the best way to find the boats level. thoughts on bow stem?
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IMG_2905.jpg
IMAG1787.jpg
IMAG1781.jpg

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steve bunda
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Re: front frame u22 sportsman

Post by steve bunda » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:29 am

Stem and Forefoot look bad, this means the side planks must come off. Now, how is the keel, chines, and transom frames?

One must survey the complete hull and identify the best restoration plan that will achieve the desired results that the boat owner wishes to obtain within the budgeted time and money.

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parroteyes
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Re: front frame u22 sportsman

Post by parroteyes » Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:31 am

Well first you need to replace that Pepsi.

Then, with an appropriate beverage, you'll need to decide what about this darn boat is level and straight.

Short cut: forget about it, it isn't.

Still you need some reference, so realize the only thing that won't move while you're working is the stringers.

So get the boat supported by the stringers and level them.

Spend about 8 hrs going around the boat measuring and recording how high stuff is from the plane of the stringers. A laser level set a couple of feet higher than the top (bottom since its upside down) of the stringers is essential.

At the same time run a string the length of the boat at the center line. Measure all the frame landings etc from the string.

Assuming the transom is square with that string (well, close enough) measure to each of the landings etc.

Now you have several pages of measurements but more importantly, you'll have an appreciation of the accuracy of the construction of these boats and will have developed the skills necessary to do these measurements as you proceed.

You will try to make the boat symmetrical and true. Eventually you will come to places where you will have to choose among accurate, symmetrical and fair. Choose symmetrical over accurate and fair over all else.

These measurements with pictures will help you down the road. Its worth the effort to get them and get them organized for when you need them.

When you are done, and every thing is fair and looking good, it is permitted, but not recommended, that you repeat this measuring process. Its OK to just loose those final as built measurements. It is what it is!

Enjoy
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Re: front frame u22 sportsman

Post by HappenMaker » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:10 pm

here is a pic of the transom
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IMAG1872.jpg

HappenMaker
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Re: front frame u22 sportsman

Post by HappenMaker » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:17 pm

should i use the phillipne mahogony on the transom or is there something that would be better? like genuine or white oak
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IMAG1871.jpg

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