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Connie Bottom

Framing, planking and fairing. Repair, or reconstruction. If it's hull related, you'll find it here.

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tkhersom
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Connie Bottom

Post by tkhersom » Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:49 am

Hi Gang:

Yes this is a question about the bottom of a Connie not Connie's Bottom.
elvgren_ohno68flag.jpg
But I digress and I have only just begun.

I have something curious on the bottom of my Connie that I would like your opinion on.

At first I was thinking it was factory, than I thought it was just a bad repair, now I am not sure what to think.

The last 6 3/8 inches of the bottom planks are short sawed. They also dip down like a plane attached to the stern would. (I have noticed the Continental dips also, but is not short planked).
unnamed (1).jpg
I know it is a BAD idea to short plank, but upon further investigation I realized this complete area is triple planked. The planking where the shafts come through the hull are 13' long, next to them on each side is a third layer of planking about 42" long and the rest of the area has the third layer of planking between 12" to 16", due to the curve of the stern.
unnamed.jpg
This picture shows the diagonal middle planking and the third layer of planking running longitudinally.

My restorer says this is a real issue that my survey should have found and we will need to address it before long. I trust his work and opinion, but have yet to point out the triple planking to him.

My question is have any of you seen this kind of construction on a Connie before or is this just a bad repair?

Thanks

Troy
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Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

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whamm511
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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by whamm511 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:46 am

Troy,

I'm not the one with the best knowledge to chime in here but I'm curious to see what others have to say. I haven't seen that on my Connie but I've not looked for it. I think my shipwright would have called my attention to it if it exists. I'm going to check on mine when next I get to see it. Snow is gone now (although the weather forecast says we may get some more) and I'm anxious to get to it.

The thought crossed my mind that perhaps your Connie had started out as a shorter model and been lengthened to sell as a longer boat. So I checked Conrad's Essential Guide. It says that your '58 38' was the last year for that length in that model so it's not likely to have been some kind of a holdover from a previous model adapted to fit a new sales plan. Your Hull Card shows that you were definitely built as a 38 footer so it's definitely not an add on unless it was done at the factory which just doesn't seem likely. I'll wait to see what more experienced folks have to say but I'm placing my guess on a repair.
Last edited by whamm511 on Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bill Hammond
1960 36' Connie
Flint/Port Huron, MI
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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by Doug P » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:36 am

Took me years to train that dog. :D

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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by Captain Nemo » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:49 pm

Hi Troy,
My 28' Sedan Cruiser has the original bottom. The plank ends have short sectioned pieces called "shingles" designed to help her plane out. She also is triple planked in that section. Looks like your pic shows the end piece running perpendicular to the planking. I haven't seen anything like that factory. I'm guessing that is not original design.
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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by boat_art » Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:20 pm

My 46' Connie is the same way. I assumed it was a repair to the plank ends. I didnt notice if mine has a "planing" angle to it.
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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by tkhersom » Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:43 pm

Captain Nemo wrote:Hi Troy,
My 28' Sedan Cruiser has the original bottom. The plank ends have short sectioned pieces called "shingles" designed to help her plane out. She also is triple planked in that section. Looks like your pic shows the end piece running perpendicular to the planking. I haven't seen anything like that factory. I'm guessing that is not original design.
Actually the bottom was just painted, so it gives the illusion of a plank running perpendicular to the rest of the planking, but it is actually small 6 3/8 inch pieces that would be perfectly described as "shingles". :D
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by joanroy » Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:03 pm

If two Connie's of the same vintage are the same way, I would think it is factory. If the bottom is sound, I wouldn't mess with it.

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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by tkhersom » Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:53 am

Doug P wrote:Took me years to train that dog. :D
You are a talented man! :mrgreen:
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by jfrprops » Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:41 am

in the parlance of Virginia boat building we call those WEDGES....as distinct from WEDGIES....which that gal is in no danger of having. If the planning surface extends beyond the transom we call those SQUAT BOARDS....which you can also train the dog to do.
John in Va.
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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by evansjw44 » Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:16 pm

Those wedges are to give the stern a bit of lift. They are before trim tabs. These boats are known to squat something awful without them. They are stern heavy. The engines are too far aft for good trim but moving them forward takes away cabin space so the wedges are just a compromise.
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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by jfrprops » Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:09 pm

Get yourself some add on stern planes......that boat is heavy as Jim Evans points out....and she will pick up lots of water weight too.....modern hydraulic levelers are really necessary I think. My 33' will NOT get up on plane without them.

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

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tkhersom
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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by tkhersom » Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:17 pm

Ya, I was wondering about planes. :?

My plan right now is to get her wet, give her a shake down season and make decisions from there.

Unfortunately it's not very practical to keep them in the water year round up here.

Most of the guys I plan on cruising with do about 8 knots, so at that speed I won't need planes anyway.
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by whamm511 » Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:52 pm

As I understand it one of the main advantages of getting up on plane these days is saving fuel. Don't know if that can be accomplished at 8 knots but if it can that'd be the way to go. I'm going to eventually have tabs on mine. The only question I'll have is Auto or Manual? My Boatwright's got tabs on his 32' Connie, manual, and wouldn't have it any other way.
Bill Hammond
1960 36' Connie
Flint/Port Huron, MI
http://www.chris-craft.org/registry/vie ... at_id=1708

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tkhersom
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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by tkhersom » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:09 pm

I have manual on my Formula.

They are very handy.

I think I will save fuel at 8 knots by barely being off idle. We will see. :shock:
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by Doug P » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:13 pm

tkhersom wrote:I have manual on my Formula.

They are very handy.

I think I will save fuel at 8 knots by barely being off idle. We will see. :shock:

if your bow wake is larger than your stern wake, you are wasting fuel.
Also.....go with the tide

or as our leader said, deflate your tires for better mileage, or is that knottage.

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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by Doug P » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:24 pm

Jim Staib has a special on trim tabs
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tkhersom
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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by tkhersom » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:59 pm

Doug P wrote:deflate your tires for better mileage, or is that knottage.
Damn! I can't find the valve stems. Crap, I can't even find the tires! :shock:

Those spontoons are cool though! 8)
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by evansjw44 » Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:26 am

Your Connie will not plane at 8 knots. Planing boats like your Connie need speed to get up on plane. You need somewhere 15 mph to get up on plane then often you can pull back on the power a maintain planing at 12 MPH or so. You can see it in the stern wake. Once on plane the wake will form a "V" that pulls away from from each side and meets in the middle. Its really hard to find the most economical speed without a good sumlog and fuel flow instruments.

My Sea Skiff need around 2700 revs to get up and then I pull back as low as 2500 revs. Thats around 13 MPH. My fuel flow is optimum around 2800 revs. It start that sharp upward climb over 3100 revs.

I have Bennet hydraulic trim tabs. My skiff only really needs them when the fuel tanks over half full. The tanks are right behind the engines. This gets worse if your tanks are at the transom.

You can cut fuel usage by running slow, slower than when the hull wants to come up on plane. But, the price you'll pay is rolling, pitching, yawing and poor helm response. Maybe some sea sickness?
Jim Evans

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tkhersom
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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by tkhersom » Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:15 am

No, I didn't figure I would plane at 8 knots. :wink:

Non of the other boats are planning at that speed either.

One of my friends says his PC (Performance Cruiser) does 7 at idle. :D
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

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Doug P
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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by Doug P » Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:43 pm

With as much weight in the stern, if you can load as much into the bow for more balance. A fuel flow meter, about $200. will show you that little difference between your cruising buddies' speed of between 7-12 knots. It may be as much as 35% usage difference.

For many years 3 of us cruised....2 trawlers and an Uniflyte. The Uniflyte had to go faster to maintain better fuel. He would circle us etc. to stay with us.


it all comes down to De Plane
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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by laclede » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:22 pm

T
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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by Doug P » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:31 pm

Laclede. You are absolutely right. I was too young :roll:

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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by laclede » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:17 pm

I
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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by robertpaul » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:25 pm

I might offer a comment on the triple planking at the stern. On our 1937, there are thick copper plates immediately aft of the propellers. This serves to protect the hull from the eroding effect of turbulence and possibly debris coming off the props. Each plate is about 18"x18" and has about 50 fasteners. The interior longitudinal planking serves as backing for these plates as the fasteners are about 1 3/4" inches long (the double planking is only 1"). Our cruiser is an early planing design (I think) with a relatively mild v at the stern. Like most boats of this vintage, the stern is quite a bit narrower than the more modern Connies. With a maximum beam of 11' on a 35' boat, the stern is a touch over 8'. This should make getting on a plane a challenge, but with twin Crowns and fuel tanks amidships ahead of the engines, Elude will get up on a full plane at about 14 mph. The bow is up a bit at that speed but not enough to impair vision. Those rare times when I would 'air it out', she would flatten out very nicely at 17mph, and eventually hit 22, depending of course on the load. I will reiterate from a previous post somewhere that at that point she really really likes her gasoline. We usually cruise at 8-9mph, as it is quiet and almost seductive. I find myself staring into the water and time goes by. On a plane I find there is more commotion than I like. It was odd to me that 20mph in a 75 year old cruiser could seem so fast and exciting. Now that I am 60 myself, it is similarly exciting when I try to run after something as fast as I can. Like the boat, I am waiting for something important to 'let go' and produce a catastrophic failure.
1937 35' Double Stateroom Enclosed Cruiser

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Doug P
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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by Doug P » Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:23 pm

laclede wrote:I bet you still get carded in bars.

Hey DougP, or others - I love to soak up your perspectives on the physics of boating, and repairs - it is extremely helpful. I dont think I have seen you guys reccommend your favorite technical/practical books on wood boat maintenance, or boating in general - what are the 5 must=read books ? What is best book on Live Aboard? What are other good boating forums?

Let me switch this back to your forum.

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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by srlittin » Thu May 15, 2014 8:37 pm

Having just pulled our 1957 constellation, 30' for a hull clean and transporting, I see that it is identical to the pictures of your boat. The previous owner of our constellation commented that the boat planed well, without being nose high. This boat also still has the original planking.
Pictures to follow

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tkhersom
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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by tkhersom » Fri May 16, 2014 6:00 am

srlittin wrote:Having just pulled our 1957 constellation, 30' for a hull clean and transporting, I see that it is identical to the pictures of your boat. The previous owner of our constellation commented that the boat planed well, without being nose high. This boat also still has the original planking.
Pictures to follow
Awesome! :D

At this point I feel there are enough of us with this construction in the late '50s Connies to believe that it is intentional.

I am tickled to determine that this is factory and not just a poor repair.
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC

1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"

Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat

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whamm511
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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by whamm511 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 9:57 am

I stopped in a nearby Boat Restoration Shop a while ago and he was working on a beautiful Red & White. He was doing some fairly extensive bottom repair and had the boat tipped up on its side for ease of work so I got a real good look at the construction. I asked him about the wedge shape at the rear and he said that yes it did have it but that he wasn't going to put it back in. I asked him about his reasoning and he stated that he felt it wasn't necessary. As he had already pulled the planking I could not tell if it had been triple planked around the struts. I believe that the length was around 35' but I can't remember if they made Red & Whites that large or not.
Bill Hammond
1960 36' Connie
Flint/Port Huron, MI
http://www.chris-craft.org/registry/vie ... at_id=1708

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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by srlittin » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:34 pm

While doing some serious transom repairs to our 1957 30ft constellation, I noticed that there were many cracks and distortion at the stern. Many of the screws were broken.
Glad now that I decided to replace this.
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Re: Connie Bottom

Post by srlittin » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:51 pm

New pieces being fitted
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