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cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

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iwally
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cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

Post by iwally » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:27 am

Here I am trying to cut the batten notches for frame #1 and wondering how everyone else does this. I'm using a 1-1/2" forstner bit on a drill press and having trouble clamping the piece to the table at the correct angle.

So how do/did y'all do this? And how successful/easy was it?

Is the drill press is not the right thing to use?
Maybe put the piece in the vise and the bit in a hand drill and eyeball it?

thanks

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Re: cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

Post by boat_art » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:54 pm

I use a Japanese backsaw after the frame is in position. Use battens to fair a line from the other frames, if the frame is a replacement that is.
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Re: cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

Post by robertpaul » Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:03 pm

I agree that hand tools are fine for this, either before or after frame is installed. On the few original frames I removed from our '37 cruiser, i could see evidence where the workers at CC used a chisel in the end to get the notch angle to where they wanted it so the batten would fit nicely. On most they seemed to first slightly over-cut the depth with a bandsaw. I wouldn't bet that I could cut it myself and not expect to do similar fussing with a very sharp chisel to finalize the fit. Besides, it feels cool when a sharp chisel peels off a thin slice of material.

Don't work to the same tolerances as NASA.

Rob
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parroteyes
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Re: cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

Post by parroteyes » Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:13 am

Clamp a 2 X 4 to the drill table, 2" side on table, one half the thickness of your frame behind the center Line of the drill. Then C clamp the frame to the 2X4.
If your press table is level, you can use a level at the point where you marked the batten slot to set the frame just right.
You can also set the stop on the press so that it travels exactly the depth of the batten plus the length of the bit point.
Then you put your frame against the 2X4 with the tip if the bit right against the center mark of the batten slot, get it level and clamped a bore down to stop.
This is not perfect because the bottom of the slot is perpendicular to the side of the frame, not parallel to the surface of the frame.
You will have to dress the bottom of the slot to compensate.

You can make a jig that will overcome that problem. Instead of just a 2X4 add a 1x6 "L" on top of it with screws. Bore a hole through the 1X6. Now c clamp the frame to the 1X6 with your hole at the center mark of the frame. And the surface of the frame against the 1X6. You'll need shims at the clamping points because of the curves in the frame's surface. Again you can set the presses stop so the depth is perfect.
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parroteyes
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Re: cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

Post by parroteyes » Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:22 am

Wait. Stop.

I posted pictures earlier.

Go to:

Batten Landings - How I did it

Which is a thread started 7/26/2011.
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iwally
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Re: cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

Post by iwally » Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:24 am

Hi,
Thanks for all comments. The handsaw method looks elegant but I doubt I could do it well.

The photo series was great - in essence what I've been attempting but w/o the jig. I was trying to clamp a correctly angled companion (it's cut away) to the table and then clamp the piece to that but clamp management was difficult and time consuming. My husband came along and started using a couple of big (scissor-like) hand clamps and he reports that they work a lot better; unfortunately they are so stiff it is difficult for me to open them. I think the jig is the thing. Surmising you just shimmed under one side to get the angle.

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parroteyes
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Re: cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

Post by parroteyes » Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:37 am

Actually shims were used only to improve clamping. The angles are correct if you use the jig in the picture and have the face of the frame against the bottom of the jig. That will result in the drill bit perpendicular to the face of the frame and the bottom of the bored notch will be parallel to face of the frame, which is what you are after.
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That's me 1950 - already a CC lover!

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parroteyes
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Re: cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

Post by parroteyes » Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:58 am

A couple more hints:

Set your depth a smidge deeper than the batten thickness. You will be putting 5200 in there which will raise the batten a little in the notch and you probably left a little extra on your new frame face to be "finished" later. If the batten ends up proud of the frame face, you have to sand down the batten all along that area. Too much work. Better if the batten is a 32nd lower that the frame face.

On frames where the batten crosses the frame and a fairly significant angle (the fore side is closer to the keel than the aft side) the frame will be at a significant angle on the jig, and therefore difficult to clamp tightly. Start with the frames nearer the stern and you'll gain experience with the clamping. When you get further forward you'll know how well they have to be clamped. If your bit is sharp and you go slow you can get away with frame to jig clamping that isn't quite as good as you want.
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Re: cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

Post by Tom Gruenauer » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:05 pm

I used a small fine tooth back saw with two pieces of wood bolted to the blade parallel to the teeth. The blocks were set back from the teeth the thickness of the batten. When you saw at your lines the depth is automatic, also the angle is copied of off the face of the frame. Multiple cuts 1/16 apart, clean up with a sharp chisel. This worked both the depth and angle are foolproof.

iwally
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Re: cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

Post by iwally » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:05 pm

parroteyes wrote:Actually shims were used only to improve clamping. The angles are correct if you use the jig in the picture and have the face of the frame against the bottom of the jig. That will result in the drill bit perpendicular to the face of the frame and the bottom of the bored notch will be parallel to face of the frame, which is what you are after.
Right, I went back and looked at the second closer photo of the jig and it became clear to me. Thanks.

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Re: cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

Post by iwally » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:08 pm

Tom Gruenauer wrote:I used a small fine tooth back saw with two pieces of wood bolted to the blade parallel to the teeth. The blocks were set back from the teeth the thickness of the batten. When you saw at your lines the depth is automatic, also the angle is copied of off the face of the frame. Multiple cuts 1/16 apart, clean up with a sharp chisel. This worked both the depth and angle are foolproof.
Well now, that sounds like a workable, low risk, solution.

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parroteyes
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Re: cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

Post by parroteyes » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:35 pm

The saw solution is better if you have only a couple of frames to do - say 8 or 10 batten slots.

It will not work on the stern frame because the batten stops mid-frame.

It does take some time to set up the drill press solution and you have to have the bit.

Still, the drill press method is how they did it originally.

Since none of us is in this for the money, I think you ought to use both methods on different frames. That way you'll maximize the time you spend enjoying this marvelous hobby! :roll:
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iwally
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Re: cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

Post by iwally » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:07 am

Ha! Maximizing the time this is taking is not the problem. Fast & accurate is preferred.

I'm working on frames 1 & 2. The stern frames are coming up soon. Most everything in between (topsides) is debatable.

thanks for your help!

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Re: cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

Post by jfrprops » Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:33 pm

Now this is a really great thread and post. but I have not been able to get to those pix parroteyes or someone posted before....how do you do that?
You would think a frequent posted like me could do that....wrong

John in Va.
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parroteyes
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Re: cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

Post by parroteyes » Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:58 pm

I got to them by searching Battens and Parroteyes.

I think the easy way is to copy paste:

Batten Landings - How I did it

into the search box and scroll down to the one with that exact title.
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robertpaul
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Re: cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

Post by robertpaul » Tue Mar 11, 2014 5:01 pm

John

Clamp your laptop or smartphone to a 2x4, run them through a DeWalt planer, and then cut to size with a bandsaw. Trim it up with a sharp chisel (my favourite tool for fussy work). If that doesn't work I can't help you.
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Re: cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

Post by jfrprops » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:00 pm

parroteyes...that search, which I tried previously won't work for me......must be cyber stupid me....but would like to see that pic\

John in Va
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
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parroteyes
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Re: cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

Post by parroteyes » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:13 pm

John in VA

The original post in the thread (with the pictures) is:

Board index ‹ Wood Hull Construction ‹ Hull Construction < Batten Landings - How I Did It

Posted by Parroteyes July 26, 2011

John in OH
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That's me 1950 - already a CC lover!


iwally
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Re: cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

Post by iwally » Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:31 am

Well I made the jig and it looks great!

Unfortunately I was unable to clamp the extremely angled frame #2 to it using my quick release clamps (even with shims). I'm thinking that I need to get a different type of clamp to handle these angles - perhaps a wooden screw type will work better.

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Re: cutting the batten notch angles - eyeball it?

Post by parroteyes » Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:48 am

The Post above suggesting a fine toothed back saw with stops might be better.

I may have used the trim saw for the really angled slots. See picture of the trim saw in the How I Did It post.

Multiple cuts with the trim saw set to the proper depth will do it.
Hull # 16-R-OX2 (March 1946)
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That's me 1950 - already a CC lover!

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