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crusader 350 hp engines and trannys

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61seaskiff42
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crusader 350 hp engines and trannys

Post by 61seaskiff42 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:12 pm

I was wondering is 3000.00 too much for a set of used engines for the 1961 42' seaskiff ????? I don't have any engines now just wondering what the opinion is on the subject. I could get small blocks here locally for about 1800.00 any advice is appreciated . :? :? :? :? :?

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quitchabitchin
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Re: crusader 350 hp engines and trannys

Post by quitchabitchin » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:49 pm

I would need more specifics on the engines. Used and fully rebuilt, ready to install? Or used, been used, and may need rebuilt someday?

Do you have cooling systems, alternators, starters, carbs, etc? When you say you do not have any, do you have a completely empty hull?
FLASH1969 Chris Craft Cavalier Ski-230 HP 327Q

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Re: crusader 350 hp engines and trannys

Post by jfrprops » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:12 pm

Posting some pics of the boat would be interesting?

That is a big heavy ride, newer smc's would be adequate I guess....but those prices all sound low.....but answer the questions posted prior....and I am sure you will get good info and replies.

Good luck,

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

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Re: crusader 350 hp engines and trannys

Post by drrot » Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:56 am

Make sure they have the correct reduction gear for a boat that big.
Jim Staib
www.finewoodboats.com


1947 Penn Yan 12' Cartopper WXH474611
1950 Chris-Craft 22' Sportsman U-22-1532
1957 Chris-Craft 26' Sea Skiff SK-26-515
1968 Century 17' Resorter FG-68-174

61seaskiff42
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Re: crusader 350 hp engines and trannys

Post by 61seaskiff42 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:45 am

They are complete w/ everything all three sets of engines. I have trannies only in the boat no motors.

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Re: crusader 350 hp engines and trannys

Post by 61seaskiff42 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:47 am

Yes they are turn key engines

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Re: crusader 350 hp engines and trannys

Post by evansjw44 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:10 pm

I read that you have transmission but no engines? In '61 CC used the 430CID MEL (Lincoln) engines and Paragon HJ transmission with most likely 2:1 or 2.5:1 reductions. I'm pretty sure you can't bolt an HJ to a big block chevy. You will much better served getting engines with transmissions. The HJs are obsolete anyway. These no many parts left for them.

I wouldn't even look at SBCs for a 40 footer unless you only want to chug along at 8 mph. Years ago, before Chevy sold 454s, a neighbor in our marina had a pair of experimental 454s in his 1959 40 foot skiff. It ran really well. Its the same hull as your '61.

It doen't matter much whether you go for Merc or Crusaders. Both will have Borg Warner Velvet Drive Gears. The reduction on these can be swapped for ratio. You'll have some issues with instrument but Dale Kosian can make you some electric tachs that look exactly like the stock '61 mechanicals.

If I had deep pockets I'd look for a pair of Cats, Cummins, or Yanmars. That would add a lot of value to the boat, more than newer gas engines.
Jim Evans

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Re: crusader 350 hp engines and trannys

Post by 61seaskiff42 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:15 pm

Should I buy the engines for 3000.00 for complete 454s w/ trannies???fresh water cooled ready to go in running condition. All I have to do is install them in the boat and go!!!!!Thanks for the info keep it coming

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quitchabitchin
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Re: crusader 350 hp engines and trannys

Post by quitchabitchin » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:25 pm

Like the others have said, what are the transmissions and what is their reduction ratio? I would say if the transmissions are usable in your boat, that is a great deal, assuming the condition is as described. The engines alone for $3K is a good deal, but even better if you can use the trannys.
FLASH1969 Chris Craft Cavalier Ski-230 HP 327Q

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61seaskiff42
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Re: crusader 350 hp engines and trannys

Post by 61seaskiff42 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:04 pm

I think they are 2to5to1 they are valvet drive type w/gear reduction on the 454s . I think 350hp each is plenty of power for the sea skiff . I have pictures but i don't have a clue how to post them,the boat is pictures are already on this site under( new owner needed in Cleveland ohio )

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evansjw44
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Re: crusader 350 hp engines and trannys

Post by evansjw44 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:58 am

A minor detail. First, to fit a modern big block V8 in your skiff you will have to modify the stringers. I think the CC 430 used a shallow oil pan so you should be on the look out for clearanes and possible relocation forward to get pan clearance.

Now here's another detail. You need a pair of engines with one standard and one opposite rotation at the shaft coupling. Some of the modern engines get the opposite rotation in the transmission. Both engines turn in the standard automotive rotation and one has a transmission that reverses the rotation of the shaft where the other has a straight through rotation with no reversal. I don't know if Crusader does this but Merc does on small blocks. It saves tham from having to reassemble an engine just to swap out the cam and cam drive.
Jim Evans

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Re: crusader 350 hp engines and trannys

Post by jfrprops » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:28 pm

As Jim Evans and others are pointing out...you are facing several options and MANY GIVENS.....like the motor mounts and depth of oil pan and will the borg W. velvets fit where paragons once were or vice versa .....length of shafts in current boat....
I would be very careful not to buy something and then face mega mess trying to make it fit/work. Just research thoroughly and measure twice.

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

61seaskiff42
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Re: crusader 350 hp engines and trannys

Post by 61seaskiff42 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:44 am

It sounds like a lot too digest . I need to check a few things out !!!Thanks for the the advice . You guys have been great . Well I have to do something , I have no engines at all in the boat and 431s are very rare even 427s are hard to come by . They would cost more than the 454s plus parts are expensive . I suppose if I am going to do this I will have to do some mods in the engine bay . I would imagine If I could go diesel it would be cost prohibitive . If you guys out there have ever repowered a boat I would love to hear how it went . I know that the futura on the web site has been repowered w/ 454s I think thats what I read in a brass bell issue . Thanks Chris

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Re: crusader 350 hp engines and trannys

Post by evansjw44 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:27 pm

Replacing old Lincolns or 427s is pretty common. Every boat is different so its hard to in detail what you have to do. But assume you'll have to modify the engine stringers and maybe replace shaft and most likely props. You are adding 75 hp on each shaft. Are the HJs 2.5:1 or 3.0:1? You might want to think about going to 2.0:1 reduction on the replacements as it becomes less likely you'll have to upgrade the diameter of the shaft to accomodate the added torque and the existing props might work with just a little pitch tweak. Consider the offsetting cost of new shafts, struts and props against changing the reduction gear sets.

If you look around you might find someone who has a mock-up of the Crusader or Merc that you can use to test fit. I think at $3000 for the pair or even $3000 each is a good deal. New they run around $7000. Even if they don't work out you could likely resell them at a very small loss. I assume they came out of a repower to diesel or a total loss scrap out. Mecr or Crusader can probably furnish you with detailed drawings that locate all the touch spots. You could use the drawings to make a mock-up or have a cabinet maker or pattern maker make you one. Muscling around a 1500# engine on a chain fall and A frame to locate it is tough work. Also, some of the hot rod sources have plastic mock-up of various engine blocks so that might be a starting point too. Just look for a plastic mock-up of a fully dressed 454 Chevy and you're half way there.
Jim Evans

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Re: crusader 350 hp engines and trannys

Post by jfrprops » Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:34 pm

good advice by jim evans.....you know what he means by a mockup?.....a template of all the touch points made out of wood or something.....and also using a block of Styrofoam or something to mock up the space taken up by the block and its add ons will go a long way toward telling you if you have clearances.

He is also right on about changing the reductions....

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

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