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327F / 350 Vortec sea water pump adj. brackets

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Jeff Weymouth
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327F / 350 Vortec sea water pump adj. brackets

Post by Jeff Weymouth » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:19 am

I originally posted this under the general Engines and Powertrain category. I'm reposting this under Fiberglass.... to broaden it's distribution.

I'm in the process of replacing my 327F engines with Vortec head 350's in my 36' 1965 Constellation. The 3/8" tapped holes in the RH Vortec head vs the 7/16" tapped holes in the 327F head are in different locations and have different spacing, so the original 327F bracket used for the Sherwood sea water pump belt tension adjustment does not fit. Has anyone found a similar bracket that fits the Vortec head? My alternate thought is to fabricate an adapter plate that will bolt to the Vortec head and have tapped holes to position the original 327F bracket as close to original position as possible. This would require that the sea water pump, fresh water circulation pump, balancer pully and alternator be spaced forward a like amount for belt alignment. The would also mis-align the circulation pump to exhaust manifold hoses by the adapter plate thickness. In addition the pump outlet nipple hits the larger 7" diameter harmonic balancer requiring the pump to be mounted outboard an additional ~1/2 inch. Has anyone faced these problems before? How did you solve it?

I assume that some 350 cu in chevrolet based Chris Craft engines with fresh water cooling used the same Sherwood sea water pump on the right front of the block and the later 3/8 bolt pattern - what brackets were used on those later model 350's with 3/8 dia bolts? If so does anyone have 2 sets?
Jeff Weymouth
"Mahdi" CXE36-009H
36' 1965 Constellation
Port of Everett, WA

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quitchabitchin
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Re: 327F / 350 Vortec sea water pump adj. brackets

Post by quitchabitchin » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:44 pm

I think you will have to either fabricate brackets or look into possibly using a MerCruiser water pump set up. I am not sure what the specifics are on the MerCruiser stuff, but i would be willing to bet you can find the pumps and brackets used for a reasonable price and replace the impellers.

With the vast availability of the older GM small block parts and engines, why are you switching to the later Vortec head series?
FLASH1969 Chris Craft Cavalier Ski-230 HP 327Q

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Jeff Weymouth
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Re: 327F / 350 Vortec sea water pump adj. brackets

Post by Jeff Weymouth » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:25 pm

The roller cam with the Vortec heads will provide better fuel mileage along with increased power.
Jeff Weymouth
"Mahdi" CXE36-009H
36' 1965 Constellation
Port of Everett, WA

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Paul P
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Re: 327F / 350 Vortec sea water pump adj. brackets

Post by Paul P » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:22 pm

The 327F used heads with drilled and tapped bosses intended for ancillary equipment. We have had one of our Lancer restoration guys buy a remanufactured long block and it arrived with heads that worked just fine on the motor, but they were not suitable for the marine ancillary equipment, and he notified the company who did the remanufacture and they said to return the heads for an exchange. I understand they sent him what we'll just call "truck heads" for now, because those had the proper drilled and tapped loctaions for all the industrial bolt on stuff. The point being, with new non marine heads of a different design, none of the original stuff will bolt up to the new heads on the front or rear of the motor, and may not bolt to the exhaust side either.

My comment is generic to draw attention to a potential problem, you have the specific info and I do not, so look at anything you intend to re-use, and how you will be running the sea water pumps, etc. As a previous poster noted, you will most likely have to custom fabricate the brackets, maybe need a spacer, longer bolts, whatever. Better get an exhaust gasket too, and check to see if it fits the motor and whatever vintage exhaust manifolds you may be using.

Regards,

Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

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evansjw44
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Re: 327F / 350 Vortec sea water pump adj. brackets

Post by evansjw44 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:17 am

Marine Power, the spun off CC engine Division used 350 blocks. Still, they were older blocks and they likely cherry picked the parts, heads, cam, crank, et al. Unless you plan to run your 350s at higher RPM you won't get much benefit from the Vortec heads. You might want to check the cam profile you're using. A the CC or Marine Power engine used a high torque at low RPM profile. A CC or Marine Power 350 cid was rated around 250HP. A somewhat similar Merc or Crusader 350 were rated around 260. The new fuel injected 350s are using higher compression pistons and heads and taller cams to run at higher cruising RPM.

I don't think you're going to much increase in fuel "millage". A 36 Connie is a big heavy boat.
Jim Evans

jfrprops
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Re: 327F / 350 Vortec sea water pump adj. brackets

Post by jfrprops » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:55 am

Lots of good advice on this post of your's. I think Andy (quiturbitchin) is right that maybe you could adapt the newer mercruiser pump easier than all that other retro work.

Paul is totally on with his comments about the heads not having the taps for marine add ons...and that is your biggest problem as I see it.

Jim is right about the heads vs cam stuff as well......tough decision you have....more research needed I think.

Like Jim suggest, the improved performance that you seeks may be outweighed by the trouble you will have lining up the marine parts.

Complex alignments in not much space...after you think you have it all figured out...the final thing won't work right.....is my sad experience with stuff of this nature.

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

Jeff Weymouth
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Re: 327F / 350 Vortec sea water pump adj. brackets

Post by Jeff Weymouth » Sat Dec 26, 2015 9:01 pm

OK, I finally got the Vortec conversion done. It was an interesting/frustrating process using the original 327F externals but the result very satisfactory. The additional power and torque are a great improvement. I felt the 327F's were working pretty hard beyond about 3000 RPM. The new engines feel like they are loafing at 3300/3400 and 19 knots. Here's what I did to make it all work. The Vortec balancer moves the crank pulley 1/4 inch forward. I spaced the circulation pump forward 1/4 inch with a commercially available spacer and a longer bolt and sleeve that goes thru the plastic timing cover. Using 1/4 inch flat plate I fabricated an adapter plate under the upper seawater pump adjuster bracket. The upper hole in the plate is common to the stock adjuster and the existing Vortec upper head 3/8 diameter hole. The adapter is bolted to the head lower 3/8 hole. The adapter has an offset 7/16 diameter tapped hole for the stock upper bracket lower hole. The offset rotates the pump to clear the larger diameter Vortec balancer. A lower 1/4 inch bracket spaces the lower cast bracket outboard to match the pump hole. I used washers to space the alternator forward 1/4 inch to align the belt. Strangely the circulation pump pulley bolts hit the heat exchanger on one engine but not the other which required spacing it forward and a longer hose. When I bolted the exhaust manifolds on I found that they hit the valve covers. I solved that by using 2 solid copper gaskets. My fabric reinforced exhaust hoses and coolant hoses accepted the resulting mismatches. Since the Vortec engines have no provision for the block mounted mechanical fuel pumps I installed marine certified electric pumps, oil pressure switches and associated wiring. The original throttle bracket does not fit the Vortec intake manifold so I made them from aluminum angle and strap.
Jeff Weymouth
"Mahdi" CXE36-009H
36' 1965 Constellation
Port of Everett, WA

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