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My modified 427 engine project for the 23 Lancer Inboard

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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:33 am

Peter M Jardine wrote:Neat history.... I did not know the side oiler complete story.

I have a torn down 430 HO that indicated a 1959 block and the original pistons with in had the little knobs on the piston top PLUS the step. I didn't figure them for valve float, but that makes sense.
A 430 HO is a real piece of history. Dr. Curt Radford told me one day they (FoMoCo) had to detune those motors because they were torquing the Lincoln body so the doors would not shut properly.

Please see the attached copy from Steve Christ's book, "Big Block Ford Engines", which indicates the bumpers I mentioned but also indicates these were used to raise compression too. In any case, holding one of those in your hand is a piece of automotive history. Good stuff!


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Regards,

Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

Peter M Jardine
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Post by Peter M Jardine » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:53 pm

... and this 430 HO is a CC marine version.. :wink:

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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:22 pm

I am replacing the crab cap and Mallory distributor with a new DUI unit that produces 50,000 volts directly to the plugs and allows the gap to be increased to .050" DUI by the way, stands for Davis Unified Ignition, and they make these all custom and BY HAND IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!

I have been working with Steve Davis on this project, and he is presently custom curving a distributor for me, based specifically on my camshaft, compression, fuel quality, stage of tune, etc. This will be an out of the box SINGLE WIRE hook up.

I am doing this for several reasons. One: I have lived with the crab caps on 427 motors for nearly 20 years now and they are expensive, and they are eaten up quickly, and I am pretty fed up with the quality these days. Even the rotor I got directly from Mallory a few years ago when I had the distributors on my 38 Commander rebuilt at Mallory, rubbed the underside of the distributor cap they sent me, leaving a streak and creating dust inside the cap.

The DUI system is self contained, very hot spark, and it will give me a performance boost along with the main thing I really want, and that is RELIABILITY. This system is not for the purist who wants originality. Oh did I say this is a one-wire hook-up, and it eliminates the coil (virtually everything is self contained in the unit).

I am hopeful I'll get the unit sometime this week and I'll be doing a photo-documentation and article on the installation, along with a video of the fire-up, and eventually an on the water video and testing later next spring.

Here is what I am replacing, it is a Mallory electronic conversion inside the Mallory distributor. This one is around 40+ years old and I could not even get a spark out of it; it actually appeared the previous owner of the donor motor had it wired wrong, according to the Mallory wire schematics I found online. So rather than proceed with this system, being stranded in the main shipping channel on a blistering hot day adrift, I am making the change now.


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The DUI units look like this one in the photo, but the marine units come with the mechanical advance instead of the vac unit shown in the photo.
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For more info you can checkout their marine distributor section of their web site here
http://www.performancedistributors.com/marinedui.htm

These are available in a variety of colors, and a no-name top too if you want. If you want better performance and reliability, you might consider one of these. Keep the old distributor for boat shows, as it only takes a few minutes to make a swap out :-)


Stay tuned........more info on the way.......pun intended.

Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

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Don Ayers
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Post by Don Ayers » Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:00 pm

What modifications do you think you will have to do on the actual install?

Will you have to build a new engine box?

Was that fiberglass in the Lancer?
Don Ayers
1959 Riva Ariston
www.RivaForum.org
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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:56 am

Hi Don,

The modifications to the hull will be next to zero. The motor mounting width is the same for the big and small motors, and the depth in the deep v hull will accept the bigger block. John Adams has already proven this with his 23 Lancer modified gentlemans racers we see at the boat shows, he has installed 454 and 426B motors, and to my knowledge this will be the first (or one of the first) with a big Ford. Because the boat was in such overall poor condition I don't mind taking some liberties. Once completed it will show no external clues of being customized, except for larger exhaust outlets and the motor box. Everything else is being restored to 100% original CC Lancer. Of course there will be a difference when the throttle is pushed forward 8)

I honestly don't have a clue about the motor box on my 23' Lancer restoration boat, as it arrived without a motor or transmission, no motor box, half a windshield, and no hatch or floor cover pieces (those arrived on a pallet two weeks ago, the gent found them and thought they belonged to my boat and they did).

Since the motor mounting of the small block and big block are the same I know the motor will fit and the motor box will just have to be custom built around it. Regarding your question about original boxes, I think they are wood but honestly do not know.

My favorite combination for motor boxes is white oak, 1/4" marine plywood, stainless steel screws and Groilla Glue. Light enough to easily swing out of the way if necessary to check on the engine, a removable top/cushion for easy motor inspection.

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Once I get the motor set in place it should be relatively easy to custom build a box that is a nice tailor fit

Regards,

Paul
Last edited by Paul P on Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

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Don Ayers
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Post by Don Ayers » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:59 am

Paul;

I am going to go look at a Lancer today.

Do you have some time to talk this AM.

I need some tips at what to watch out for.

PM me with the best number and time to call

Thanks
Don Ayers
1959 Riva Ariston
www.RivaForum.org
www.barrelback.com

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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:05 pm

Ooops, missed your note here, but already spoke on the phone, good luck, send photos!

My DUI distributor just arrived, and here are some photos. 55,000 volts, .055 spark plug gap, coil is built in, and one wire hook up. How about the clear top too? :-) This is obviously having some fun with the power part of power boating.
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Custom built in Memphis, TN, specifically curved for my motor, compression, cam, fuel grade, rpm level and use. This particular marine unit does not show up in their catalog, so you have to call and deal directly with the company, rather than shopping at a performance marine or automotive outlet. I have a buddy who has run a set of these on his Chris Craft Commander 427 motors for twenty years now, and he says they are set once and never touched again.

Part of the problem seems to be the quality of the plastic they used for the old caps. It seems to be very highly prone to tracking. If they would make a crab cap out of polycarbonate, maybe all of those issues would be mute, but so far I have a couple buckets of these old caps sitting around as spares and I hate to think of how much $$ they cost to buy and ship, and the aggrivation too.

More later when I get a chance to hook it up and fire the motor.

regards,

Paul
Last edited by Paul P on Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

Peter M Jardine
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Post by Peter M Jardine » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:54 pm

Now that's slick

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Chad Durren
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Post by Chad Durren » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:53 am

Looks like the torch for the Big Dog Olympics.
1952 CC 18' Sportsman
1969 CC 19' Commander Super Sport

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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:56 pm

Here is another photo of the torch!

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Here are plug wires that go specifically with this system. As I read the Performance Distributors info, they say that once wires reach the 250 to 300 ohm level there is no point in trying to improve that. Therefore i like the thought of using their distributor and plug wires, now all I have to do is get a premium plug I can rely on and my ignition issues are solved forever on this motor, hopefully.

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Reliability is the main goal here. On some of the classic boats it is not appropriate to appear at a boat show with the new style distributor. Certainly at any judged show the judges would not be interested in reliability or efficiency, or more power, they are JUST interested in originalty and condition. Therefore if anyone would be enjoying the added power, efficiency, reliability and perhaps safety too with one of these upgraded systems (safety being associated with reliability, adrift in the main shipping channel) then they would have to pull the DUI and install the old style unit for the show.

I like the look of the old crab caps, but I don't like the cost of replacement and the frequency of replacement. Nor do I like the outboard ballast resistor, coil wires, etc. On a cruiser like a Chris Craft Commander, these units would fit into the program nicely because the Commanders (even though some were built in 1964) don't fall into the originality structure that runabouts do, and making a swap like this is therefore "more acceptable". In a runabout the motor is right there in plain view, viewed frequently and is often the centerpiece of attention, where-as on a Commander for instance, the motors are often out of sight and out of mind, and some people honestly don't care what makes their boat move forward.

In any case, I see the DUI system is adaptable to almost all GM V8 motors ever built, perhaps the early style 283 with the drive off the transmission housing would not work, not would I really like to SEE a DUI on that pretty classic motor any more than I would like to see one on a Hercules flathead.

When I am aboard our 38 Commander Express, 427 power, at night with responsbility for 12 people aboard and it happens to blow up a thunderstorm like it did a few years ago, reliability can be a life-threatening event, and if I can improve the reliability factor then I'm interested. Thankfully most Commanders are twin engine and we always have a limp home mode. During the thunderstorm I mentioned, it rained so hard we lost all contact with the shoreline, using spotlights made it look like we were about to go under Niagara Falls, everyone gathered around the helm station, and it was my job to bring everyone back, which I am forever grateful I managed to do. Thank goodness (and God) those crab caps didn't decide to give up that night..........but one did give up one day with a hot motor and refused to cooperate any further, and that motor never again ran with that particular cap despite tuning attempts, and it required a replacement before it started.
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I understand there are at least 3 crab caps that fit the Mallory YL caps used on the FE motor. I have tried them all, some have a small gasket, some are numbered, some must have lived on shelves for years, but I simply do not like the quality or longevity of this design. I never seemed to have difficulties with other style caps, and at the PRICES these things go for these days gets your attention too.

Note the groove in the cap above, cut by the rotor. The rotor and cap were provided by guess who?

Answer: "Mallory", after the distributors were fully rebuilt at Mallory. Yes, the rotor they supplied came in contact with the cap they supplied. I think the actual cap was red, I didn't notice the issue until after it had to be replaced, and then this one did the same thing, obviously creating dust and debris that did not do the internals of the distributor any good. The GM small block IBM Prestolite caps are of the same style, and although they look good I have my concerns about those too.

So guys, I am not jumping ship on the original style motors, etc., but I am frustrated with the electrical systems that were used 45 years ago and I am changing for a new system. I suppose if I go to a boat show I can always take my old distributor and wire it up, because it sure looks good. Since I have a buddy who has run the DUI type distributor for 20 years, I think they are more reliable, so time will tell and I'll be giving a full report as time passes on with any success or fault issues one way or another.

regards,

Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:30 pm

Got the unit mocked up and then installed last night, only took a few minutes. I lubed up the gear with some anti-seize material and meshed it nicely, and after a few adjustments I got the number 1 terminal right next to the number one cylinder by looking inside and watching where the rotor was at 10-degrees BTDC on the compression stroke.

Wires are MUCH bigger than the 8mm wires I had been using, so I will be modifying something, not sure just what, in order for all of that to work.

One thing about this piece of equipment that eveyone should know, by virtue of the fact that it is a custom one-at-a-time unit on a motor that has not been put into boats for nearly 40 years, they are built to the USCG spec, but they are not formally certified with the USCG spec. I understand the GM units are fully sealed but the Ford FE has one last application that the end user must do to close up the unit, and that is not an issue with me personally, but it IS an issue for everyone else. Since we all must contact Performance Distributor with our specific information about our compression ratio, cam, rotation, engine rpm, etc., this would be a good time to discuss any other issues of certification, safety, or performance.

It is remarkable we can even find somenoe who is willing to do custom work for the boating enthusiast, especially with a reverse rotation gear, on a motor series that was first introduced in 1958.


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As I understand it from http://cfr.vlex.com/vid/183-110-definitions-19763766


"Open to atmosphere means a compartment that has at least 15 square inches of open area directly exposed to the atmosphere for each cubic foot of net compartment volume."
Therefore some boats may have different regulations to comply with than others.

These people are very nice and they are easy to work with. If you contact them give them my regards and please tend to all of your safety and performance details concientiously as you deem appropriate for your needs. I have already discussed how I may be able to replace a IBM-4115 Prestolite 4115, so time will tell on that one.

best,

Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

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mfine
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Post by mfine » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:31 pm

Paul,

I have my speakers all tuned up and ready, but I don't see your video yet. :-) I am still eagerly following this thread and looking forward to seeing how it all works out for you.

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quitchabitchin
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Post by quitchabitchin » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:24 pm

Seriously Paul, I agree with Matt. When is this beast going to be running? We need videos....STAT!
FLASH1969 Chris Craft Cavalier Ski-230 HP 327Q

CCABC Board of Directors Member

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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:45 pm

Hi guys, the event should have already taken place but I have been sidetracked with quite a few issues and events, one being the building of boxes and loading up two complete 427 closed cooling systems, see photo, and these boxes are now too heavy for me to lift. I did stack them but man they are heavy, I'll have to use the tractor with a boom lift to put them in the truck, being shipped out to a friend of mine who is going to use them on his 36 TF Commander.

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I am hopeful that I'll be able to test fire the "beast" this long holiday week-end. The sea water pump is rated at 35 gpm so it will take quite a bit of water to do this and I am filling two 55-gal drums because our well-fed water system is not able to provide what I think will be needed. Since the motor is oiled down pretty good now internally for rust protection, I figure it will be quite the show when it fires up, and I hope the wind is blowing in the right direction. Right now those closed cooling systems are located between the door of the shop and the 427. Sheesh, it's always something. Stay tuned!

best,

Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

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mfine
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Post by mfine » Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:13 pm

My water pump moves 3600 gpm, the measly 35 should be easy to supply with 3-5 garden hoses if your and your neighbors have decent plumbing and the neighbors are not home.

In reality, the 35 gpm is probably a no head rating and your actual flow rate may be closer to half that, and even less at lower RPM's. Still more than a single garden hose would typically be able to supply which I think is usually around 10 gpm give or take depending on pressure, length, and internal plumbing. The hose plus a 55 gallon reservoir should give you plenty of run time to shoot us a video at various RPM's so no excuses!

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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:45 pm

Are you referring to GPH? (3600 GPM )

35 GPM is at 4000 RPM, equating to 2100 GPH and i think it is 10 psi not sure. Having done this numerous times with a SBC motor (same Sherwood) I know it will consume a lot of water and fast, even with a small feed hose.

In any case the man-cave will COME ALIVE!

Regards

Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

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mfine
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Post by mfine » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:41 pm

No, I am talking about the SBC powered water pump on the back of my boat that moves 60 gallons per second, or 3600 gpm. I don't know the GPH, the fuel tank isn't big enough to run that long :-)

My cooling pump used to run about 15 gpm, but it currently pumps 0 gpm which is causing a few problems and one of the reasons I am interested in your cooling setup. I need a better, more potent pump to get the system to reliably prime before the hard to find impellers burn up given the unusual distance between the thruhull scoop and the water pump on the intake side. The higher flow rate pump will then give too much flow for the standard 283 cooling design so I need to figure out a way to dump the excess into the exhaust and or add thermostat(s). I would like to minimize any trial and error in the design process because the only way to test is to drop the boat into a body of water, hope it works, and get back to the dock fast if it doesn't.

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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:28 pm

Okay it suddenly dawned on me that you were talking about a jet boat thrust pump!

Years ago Gordon Millar wrote an article about the 283 and 327 SBC motors and how they could potentially benefit from the aftermarket cam driven pumps available out there. I bought one, and the darn thing pumps a LOT of water, and it was way expensive too. I am actually thinking about swapping back to the duel impeller Sherwood 4-port design (is that what you are running now)??

Is there a particular reason your pump scoop intake is so remote from the motor? Under way of course it pushes water into the loop, but dry it would spin awhile coaxing water in. My antifreeze adding valve system for quick winterization also allows me to test run my motor (327F in my Skiff) on the trailer and simply put the intake line in a bucket of water instead of a bucket of antifreeze (proper antifreeze I might add, recirculated until engine is hot). This system allows me to hold the intake tube which is about 40" long and pour a cup of water down toward the pump. If the valve is properly open that water pockets in the rubber impeller and brass housing, and I just close the valve for regular running on the lake and the thing primes instantly because it has water in it and is not dry. Lots of alternatives here, hope you get one that works well for you.


Are you running the old style Sherwood 4-port on a flywheel forward 283, or the later 283 that uses the same impeller system as the 327F and 427 motors? Just curious.

best,

Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

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mfine
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Post by mfine » Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:33 pm

Old school flywheel forward 283/350 with the 4 port sherwoods. I have tried several including brass gear original (doesn't self destruct when dry but fails to prime way too often) and a rubber impeller version that works just often enough to lull you into thinking it is OK before you suddenly find yourself on a scavenger hunt for impeller pieces in your manifolds.

The boat had two scoops from the factory, one where you would expect to find it on a CC ski boat or utility that is capped off, and a second back by the transom on the starboard side. The jet has a slight down angle to the thrust (bow up moment) verses the up angle of an inboard and my theory, now confirmed with photographic evidence is that this difference is enough to pull to forward scoop out of the water in some situations, especially when pulling water skiers or tubes. Given how fast the then dry exhaust will burn through the rubber exhaust hoses after the elbow (ask me how I know) CC probably noticed the problem and relocated the intake all the way back. The transom location was probably selected because it is accessible without removing the floor and also out of the way of the jet intake. The downside is a 180 degree turn plus 8' of hose before the water hits the impellers. It may or may not be able to prime idling and it is worse in reverse, so you have very little time to get from engine start to moving forward at about 1500+ RPM or it will be a short ride.

My planned solution is a higher flow, supposedly stronger/better priming magnaflow pump with a single stiffer input hose and if possible a check valve to keep as much water in the system as possible. I fear the higher flow pump will then need some system to dump excess water overboard and ideally, if I am going to start modding I should probably add a thermostat or dual thermostats. It will get expensive fast, and to some extent I will be guessing how well it will work until I am able to do a lot of water testing. I am thinking about an above ground pool in the new barn for testing, but I fear such an approach may lead to divorce so I must tread lightly. So, I am doing lost of research and thinking before I start buying and cutting.

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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:14 pm

magnaflow was the Gordon Millar recommendation years ago in his article, I'll try to dig that out, give me some time, it may take a while.

Looking at the 4-port design, it is apparant that if one impeller goes out the other one still functions, at least up to a point. Two feeds through the bottom one into each pump chamber, then individual entry from each champer to the motor. If one side goes down the motor still gets water up to a point. I was thinking it may be better to use one larger feed through the bottom to the pump via an intake manifold (One large scoop that branches into two hose feeds) and then do the same on the discharge side, so you still retain the double pump redundancy but get an even feed rather than greater from one bank or another. If one impeller went out you would still get an even feed to both sides of the motor this way, but at less flow, might get overheating, but it would seem to be a more controlled system rather than having one bank go out.

Not sure about your exact config or how this would work (or look) on a vintage setup, but conceptually I like the idea of redundancy and even feed. The stock system has redundancy but the feed is potentially not even.

So you belong to the CEHC, (cooked-exhaust-hose-club) eh? I burned one with a 427 so bad one day we looked like a WW-II destroyer laying down a smoke screen. Janet said "do you smell something burning", I turned around and was shocked to see it, we were heading into the wind. I shut down the motor quickly, synthetic oil did its job that day, no damage except an internally burned and collapsed hose.

best,

Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

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mfine
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Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Pittsford and Penn Yan NY

Post by mfine » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:23 pm

You would think the double pump design provides some redundancy but it does not. Perhaps if the failure occurs while water is flowing, you may get flow into the jacket of one manifold, and then it should be pretty much even out in the block, the heads and into the exhaust at 1/2 flow. In my experience it has never worked that way. The separating plate between the two halves is too far from a perfect seal, especially where it meets the cam, so in practice if one impeller fails while trying to prime, both sides of the pump will fail to produce any suction and you are just as SOL as if you had a single impeller pump that failed.

The magnaflow has a single input and a pair of outlets that is basically a built in T. I am not sure how well it does at balancing the flow, but a pair of thermostats on the output from the heads would balance the temp which is the real goal. That probably means custom machining a pair of thermostat housings, but it's just money right?

As for the CEHC, my latest joining happened as soon as I throttled up. The exhaust manifold itself was darn hot, but the heads were still warm to the touch, maybe 100-120 degrees. The EGT is well over 1000 degrees without the water in there and that is enough to melt rubber rather quickly. I had the doghouse off and was watching the temps for issues since it was a test run after pump repair, and it still burned through before I could recognize it and react. Been thinking about where I could put in a sensor for a warning buzzer to catch that faster.

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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:20 pm

On the 4-port one bank can go totally out and the pump will still send water to everything except the "other" exhaust manifold, so there is a level of redundancy that could be looked upon as a motor preservation issue I guess.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/424840/m ... 1188493636

I always wondered why the heck they ever thought a two-chamber pump was a justified concept in the first place, except that maybe they thought the redundancy was a safety issue, maybe a limp-home-mode to preserve the motor if one impeller went out, volume, maybe... Heck I don't know.

best,
P
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

User avatar
mfine
Posts: 1405
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Location: Pittsford and Penn Yan NY

Post by mfine » Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:38 pm

I assure you it does not work that way with my sherwoods. When one impeller goes, the leakage between the chambers kills both sides and it can not prime at all and both sides fail to pump.

jim g
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Post by jim g » Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:13 pm

The system was designed so one impeller supplied one bank of the engine and the other impeller supplied the other. If you have the cast iron intake you are supposed to have one intake gasket that blocks off the water flow from the head to the thermostat chamber. If you have the low profile intake then there is no water chamber in it. With no water passing through the intake the cooling system is split in half. Left bank and right bank.

jfrprops
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Location: Powhatan Courthouse Virginia

Post by jfrprops » Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:21 pm

Paul's post are always such interesting reading...you can be only a partial gearhead like myself and connect the dots easy the way he lays it out!

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:38 pm

Hi guys,

(Thanks for the kind words, John)

The beast started and ran nicely over the Labor Day holiday week-end.

The test running here in the videos is on the garden hose, I have two 55 gal drums full of water ready for extended hot running where I’ll be doing some final tweaks to pressure and flow settings that are built into the system. I’ll just re-circulate the water until I am sure the hot running settings are okay.
The project has a totally custom cooling system more like the older INTERCEPTOR 427 system used on Century inboards. Total weight shed off this motor is actually in the 200 to 250 pound range. Transmission is a 1.5:1 Borg Warner 72C rated for higher horsepower use. Thought you 427 fans would like a little red meat, turn up your speakers.



Image




It’s ALIVE !!
http://www.youtube.com/embed/xos2MnVxe-c?rel=0


Start up……..this is what the DUI distributor system will do when you put 50,000 volts right into old crappy spark plugs with the smaller gap (the DUI system allows the gap to go up to .050” or more.

ImageImage Image

http://youtu.be/zNYU_61eHqM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNYU_61eHqM


here is the start-up again, again big screen
http://www.youtube.com/embed/zNYU_61eHqM?rel=0

Here is a longer running video sort of making a tour of the motor while it is running, note the clear distributor cap in action and turn up those speakers
http://www.youtube.com/embed/HQKVWCngnFc?rel=0

The objective is not a go-fast boat. It is just to build a husky and very reliable 23 Lancer inboard. This should hopefully do the trick.

Regards,

Paul
Last edited by Paul P on Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:45 am, edited 3 times in total.
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

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Chad Durren
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Post by Chad Durren » Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:11 pm

WOOF WOOF!!
1952 CC 18' Sportsman
1969 CC 19' Commander Super Sport

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Paul P
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Location: Nashville, Tennessee, Cumberland River and Lake system
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Post by Paul P » Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:32 pm

Well the neighbors know I'm still here, ha. Thankfully we live on 15 acres in a "rural" part of Nashville where fun like this can hapen ! We're not so far out, however, as to invoke return gunfire, but probably getting close.

The PRV system on the closed cooling 427 from which I obtained my pieces, has a full time flow coming out the top and you may have noticed I plugged these temporarily with a looped hose from one to another.

Oil pressure looks high but that is a function of the type of oil I was using for initial start up (10W40) and the fact that it was cold, along with nice tight bearing clearances too.

The motor was not timed with a light during these videos. I just swung the rotor around to where it was pointed directly at distributor terminal #1 by looking through the clear cap, while the crankshaft was set at the 10-degrees BTDC point. It ran remarkably well for just that initial setting.

In addition I'll be putting in some new plugs of course, and the recommendation is to go from .028 - .032" stock setting to .050" due to the much higher intensity spark of the Performance Distributor DUI system.

After the initial thunder in the neighborhood my lovely wife, Janet, is tired of hearing me replay the video.....guess it is time to get back to work. Fixing leaks and gaskets is pretty quiet around the house.

Regards,

Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

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mfine
Posts: 1405
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Pittsford and Penn Yan NY

Post by mfine » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:19 pm

Somehow, I didn't see new posts here over the weekend. Sounds and looks great Paul! Didn't seem that loud at all, so I am sure your neighbors didn't mind it a bit.

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Paul P
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Location: Nashville, Tennessee, Cumberland River and Lake system
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Post by Paul P » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:33 am

Hello guys,

The Lancer project motor is sitting ready to run, all systems are hooked up and functioning well. The Lancer, however, is suffering from lack of attention from me and I hope to correct this soon.

In the interim, I liked the DUI (Davis Unified Ignition) system so well I decided to get two more for my 38 Commander.

The 427 Project motor was a snap, new intake manifold, new carb, new throttle linkage and no monstrous Chris-Craft recirc pump on this one. Everything fit up nicely.

When I tried to install the DUI system on the cruiser things did not go so smoothly but I eventually prevailed. I don't want to post the entire link here, but I will say if anyone here at CCABC is contemplating installing one of these high powered distributors on their 427 motors, you should send me an email because I can save you some trouble, as I now have two fully engineered (and running) motors that had to have some plumbing re-routed and pieces ground down to fit. Less trouble if you have CLOSED COOLING, but still trouble.

Image


The good news is I now have FIFTY THOUSAND VOLTS directly to the pugs with a one-wire hook up. I also re-gapped the plugs to .052" and the spark is very strong.

Here is a video to prove the results. The motors were just timed and everything hooked up, don't worry I'll tend to the cosmetic issues later. :-)


HERE IS THE VIDEO !!

http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/Do ... 6.mp4.html

High speed water test coming up soon.

Many people have no idea how much time and work it takes to keep a cruiser (or runabout) running smoothly. People seem to think we run to the marina and twist the key and we're off, but in fact it takes many hours of work for every hour of entertainment on the water.

Regards,
Paul
Image
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

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