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327Q Project

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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Tue May 22, 2012 9:06 am

There are some Chris Craft cooling designs that have long return and delivery tubes and hoses running the length of the motor and these are done in a "factory" workmanship that I think can also be done with a Q intake swap.

There are many thermostat housings that can be obtained from a pretty wide variety of small block chevy based marine motors on the recycle market. I think they basically all use the same bolt pattern.

Here is one such example on a closed cooling system 427, note the large copper tubes (which are painted on this particular motor) connecting the front surge tank with the heat exchanger. Something like this could most likely be adapted to the Q series motors to connect the water flow circuit, and still have a workmanship quality that would look like it came from an industrial engine designer.
Image

Right now there seems to be an entire Chris Craft population out there mostly fiberglass classic boats, at the mercy of the Q intakes, as they are somewhat of a weak link due to rusting of the crossover which pressurizes the oil sump and looks like tremendous blow-by, and also freeze damage due to the design of the intake which has a nasty water pocket that will freeze if not properly winterized. As a result the Q series Chris Craft boats are negatively implicated by this weak link, and otherwise the Q motors run just fine. OSCO apparently made an aluminum intake for the Q motors but it was equally low profile and could not possibly do much/anything for performance, long since out of production too.

It would be quite a feat if someone would develope a kit of parts to do a conversion for the very many owners of Q series motors residing in classic fiberglass cruisers and runabouts.

Regards,

Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

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mfine
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Post by mfine » Tue May 22, 2012 10:26 am

How important is the low profile to getting it to fit in the various installations? It seems to me it would be pretty simple to get an Eddlebrock manifold, a carb wedge and a top mounting thermostat housing and re-route the plumbing lines. But, if the result is too tall, that is a bit of a tougher issue to tackle.

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quitchabitchin
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Post by quitchabitchin » Tue May 22, 2012 10:41 pm

I totally think this could be done with just a few obstacles and a little ingenuity. The height would probably only be an issue in the case of a boat like mine, a cruiser would have the room for a taller intake if need be.

Paul,
What "rusting of the crossover" are you speaking of? The Q intake does not have the standard heat crossover that most SBC intakes have below the carb, it is blocked off. Is there another issue that I have not heard of with these intakes?

On another note, the oil dipstick tube is mounted in the oil pan on the Q, not in the block. The old block has some sort of plug in it. It does not have a slot like a screw, it looks more like a plug that is pressed or hammered in place. Does anyone have any idea if I can get a plug for this or will I need to have one cut from round stock and pressed in?
FLASH1969 Chris Craft Cavalier Ski-230 HP 327Q

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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Thu May 24, 2012 7:58 am

Image

Sorry about the Q intake crossover comment, consider it generic, because it happens to many marine engines eventually and on one occasion it blew the dipstick right out of the boat. I am going from memory here, thought I recalled an issue with a Q motor regarding corrosion so it must have been water passage related.

I do know the Q intakes absolutely must be drained properly for freeze protection, and this may be why so many have suffered damage over the years. If you run the antifreeze through them without getting it hot enough to open the t-stat, there may be pocket of pure water in there somewhere too.

In any case you can see from the diagram it is a purpose built device, very flat, special water port for the t-stat assembly, etc., with a very big tilt on the carb base. Although these engines run reasonably well (our family 31 Commander Sedan will fly with a pair of 327Q motors) I can't help but think how much better they would run with a better flowing intake.

Ah well, I better get back to working on my own boat projects. Someone with a Q motor and some down time can run the traps for us on the conversion issues. I think there would be a lot of people interested in seeing this done successfully.

Best,

Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

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quitchabitchin
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Post by quitchabitchin » Thu May 24, 2012 3:31 pm

I have a spare GM casting # 3844459, which is the 300HP 327 casting used on the Corvettes. I may play around with it and see if I can come up with a conversion and try it out sometime. The biggest issue I see is the Oil Fill tube hole. It is about 1" or larger in diameter and is pretty thin in this part of the casting. I think if it had a tube, it would interfere with the factory fuel pump position, therefore you would have to either tap it and use a threaded plug, or weld it shut. The Edelbrock performer is a very close copy of this casting minus the oil fill tube, so maybe one of them is the way to go. I am going to get mine running again and back in the boat, if I want to experiment later, maybe I will.
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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Fri May 25, 2012 6:14 am

I got the old style Edelbrock that had a place set aside for the filler tube, drilled it and installed the tube from the old intake so I could run finned aluminum valve covers without filler caps. Point being, intakes are available without the tall old style filler tube that would potentially conflict with the thermostat assembly.

Best,

Paul


iPhone
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

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quitchabitchin
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Post by quitchabitchin » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:36 pm

Finally got the oil pan back, with remote oil drain installed. A friend of mine drilled the factory boss in the pan and tapped it to 1/2" threads then had a 30" long 1/2" diameter hydraulic hose made. If there is one thing I truly hate to do, it's pump oil out through the dipstick tube. This should make life much easier when it comes to oil changes.

I have been waiting on the pan to do final assembly on the engine and hope to put most of it together this weekend and get it in the boat in the next few weeks for break in.


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FLASH1969 Chris Craft Cavalier Ski-230 HP 327Q

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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:51 pm

NICE JOB, I think I'll add one like it on a motor I am working on now. I already have the remote drain system on that one, but it is with a rigid copper tube. I'll take another look at it and may replace it with a hose like yours. No need for the oil change to be such a horrible task. If it is easy I'll change it more often.

Regards,

Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

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quitchabitchin
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Post by quitchabitchin » Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:19 pm

I've been crazy busy for the past couple months but finally got some more work done. The oil pan is on, and I should have the last few gaskets tomorrow so I can work on final assembly this weekend. It should be complete in the next few weeks. I still have to find a plug for the dipstick hole in the block since the Q oil pan has the dipstick pressed into it. A friend said that he used to use 1/4" freeze plugs in race cars back in the day. Any thoughts?
FLASH1969 Chris Craft Cavalier Ski-230 HP 327Q

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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:40 pm

No thoughts other than there must be at least a thousand ways to plug that hole, incuding dipping a threaded bolt of approximate size into permatex and inserting it into the dipstick opening.

Good luck, my own project has stalled out due to relatives coming to town to visit, work, other distractions, but I did turn a wrench a bit a couple days ago, progress is slow but it will yield results some day.

best to ya,

Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

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quitchabitchin
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Post by quitchabitchin » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:21 am

Here are a few recent pics...I'm starting to think this thing will run someday!

Image

Image
[/img]
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jfrprops
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Post by jfrprops » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:20 am

Wow! Is that the lump of iron you hauled out of my shed? !!!!!

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

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quitchabitchin
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Post by quitchabitchin » Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:10 pm

It sure is, well the core is. I have had to transfer most everything off of the old motor. The block and heads are about the only things remaining from the one I got from you. I had to use my intake, oil pan, cooling system, and flywheel. It's almost finished. I can't wait!
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jfrprops
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Post by jfrprops » Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:21 pm

very cool...I feel like a proud papa! roll on...

John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

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Chad Durren
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Post by Chad Durren » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:41 pm

Sorry I'm late to the party. It's been a long and busy Summer. I managed to pull the Q out of the SS this weekend. With the little help of a neighbor and my "engine pulling tree", I managed to get it out the boat without any major issues. I twisted a few heads off the rusty lag bolts that held her in place, but everything else went smoothly.

I now begin the long process of getting it back in order. I will definitely be referencing this thread and Andy's great photos to inspire me along the way.

My plan for now is to clean the engine to get a better look at what I'm working with. Behind all the rust, oil and critter nests lies an engine that longs to breathe fire once again.

Image

Image
1952 CC 18' Sportsman
1969 CC 19' Commander Super Sport

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quitchabitchin
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Post by quitchabitchin » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:28 am

Since Chad just breathed a little life back into this thread, I figured I'll give a quick update.

This summer has been super busy with working 2 jobs~70 hours per week, 2 small children, travels, etc. Needless to say the engine has been sitting about 95% assembled, just need belts, hoses and carb.

On August 6, we had another daughter born and unfortunately she was born with a brain injury and spent the first 43 days of life in the NICU @ Cincinnati Children's Hospital. So for the last 60 days, all attention has been focused on her needs and managing the rest of our lives.

See her story here...

www.facebook.com/sweetsophiaspage

I will get back to this project, but first things first. If all goes well and funds allow, I'll be back in the water next summer.
Last edited by quitchabitchin on Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
FLASH1969 Chris Craft Cavalier Ski-230 HP 327Q

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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:39 am

The boats are great but this "sport" is all about the people. The people come first, especially a new-born member of the family. All the best, prayers on the way.

Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:43 am

http://s15.postimage.org/59caxxeui/photo_copy.jpg

Guys, I see Chad (also) is a fashion trend setter on week-ends ! 8)

Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

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Chad Durren
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Post by Chad Durren » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:03 am

Andy, prayers and wishes to you and your family.
1952 CC 18' Sportsman
1969 CC 19' Commander Super Sport

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Chad Durren
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Post by Chad Durren » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:08 am

Paul, that is my buddy George in the photo. He was in the engine bay while I pulled the hoist chains in a white shirt and khakis. :wink:
1952 CC 18' Sportsman
1969 CC 19' Commander Super Sport

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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:56 pm

Chad Durren wrote:Paul, that is my buddy George in the photo. He was in the engine bay while I pulled the hoist chains in a white shirt and khakis. :wink:
Starched, no doubt; ........ we would expect nothing less.

Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

jfrprops
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Location: Powhatan Courthouse Virginia

Post by jfrprops » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:05 pm

Andy, just read your current post...thinking of you and your family....all the best.

John in VA.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

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quitchabitchin
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Post by quitchabitchin » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:33 pm

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and prayers, it's been a tough road but we're making it one day at a time. This little girl has captured the hearts of people from around the country and is certainly not lacking in the prayers department. The boat can wait, it's stored inside and isn't going anywhere.

Does anybody know Chip Foose? He's doing Overhaulin' again and I think he needs to branch out and restore hull #47. If he did, I'd have to change the name to "Sophia"

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dustoff135
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Post by dustoff135 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:52 am

Best of luck with your new addition.

I have often thought a boat or three shoud be overhauled by Chip Foose. I would just hate to see them take a classic and pimp I out so much tht it would be unrecognizable. Could they do a quality restoration in a week? That is the question.
Patrick

Previous projects: 1940 17' Barrelback, #71572
1971 XK19, ORCZ19-2016V

New project: Looking???

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quitchabitchin
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Post by quitchabitchin » Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:43 am

With the red nautolex flooring apparently extinct, I am planning to do a bit of a resto mod style anyway. the red upholstery is so hot that it's nearly unbearable in the summer sun. I am going more along the route of the Lancer GT Concept from a few years ago, red with Ferrari tan interior and a teak look floor like the newer Chris Crafts. I think Chip and his team could certainly pull it off in a week. Here's a photo of the Lancer GT Concept:



Image
FLASH1969 Chris Craft Cavalier Ski-230 HP 327Q

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quitchabitchin
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Post by quitchabitchin » Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:26 am

See link in my message above for the story on my beautiful daughter. Thanks for your thoughts and prayers.
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Peter M Jardine
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Post by Peter M Jardine » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:32 pm

Prayers from here...

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Chad Durren
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Post by Chad Durren » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:07 pm

Let's talk parts cleaning. My engine was sitting outside for a long time and I'm dealing with a lot or rust.

Media blasting? Chemical bath? The exhaust manifolds and risers are a big concern as I have a lot of rust and scale (and rodent nests) on the inside.


Image

Image

Image
1952 CC 18' Sportsman
1969 CC 19' Commander Super Sport

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Jim Godlewski
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Post by Jim Godlewski » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:30 am

Me too... Love goes a long way.
jfrprops wrote:Andy, just read your current post...thinking of you and your family....all the best.

John in VA.
1956 17 Sportsman CC-17-2310
1930 Model 100 7152
https://1956chriscraftsportsman.shutterfly.com/

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quitchabitchin
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Post by quitchabitchin » Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:18 am

Thanks Jim.

Chad,

Are you going to do the engine rebuild or will you have it done? If you are having it done, the shop will do the proper cleaning of the block, heads, intake, and exhaust manifolds. Your Q looks like my old block with lots of rust in the water passages around the cylinders. When all of that rust and scale break loose, it will just clog the water flow.

Which heads are those, 3884520? If so, those are the "power pack" heads used on many 283 and 327 engines in the 60's. since they will need rebuilt anyway, I would look for a later head with the larger chambers and valves for more power.

I did a lot of research on cam profiles and finally settled on a Lunati 10000K cam and lifter kit. The original cam is one of the most popular cams GM ever produced and was used in trucks and RV's into the 80's. It had .390/.410 lift with not much duration. The 10000 is .420/.443 and will still provide low end and midrange power. Do not go too big or you will lose the bottom end power you need for the holeshot. Many people make this mistake.

Let me know if you have any questions.
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