Active Active   Unanswered Unanswered

Guardian 454 motor for XK 18

Keeping your powerboat under power is a lot easier with good advice. Post your power systems questions here.

Moderators: Don Vogt, Al Benton, Don Ayers

Riv51
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Guardian 454 motor for XK 18

Post by Riv51 » Fri May 07, 2010 8:55 pm

Could someone tell what the difference is between the Guardian 454 and the Chris Craft Thermocon 454? I believe the Guardian is more powerful at 400 hosepower. Do anyone have and engine guide or manuel the can copy me or sell to me? I'd like to know the compression ratio, what distributor was used, information for points, condensor, rotor cap and new spark plug wires. I just bought a 1973 XK 18 with this motor and I want to get it running for this summer. Sweet machine... got it from the original owner, has been in storage for the past 15 years.
Thank you!
.....Mark

User avatar
Bill Basler
Posts: 1996
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:48 pm
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA

Post by Bill Basler » Fri May 07, 2010 9:58 pm

MArk, I continued to look through our engine files after we talked. Unfortunately all we have is the Thermocon manual, and not the Guardian. Yes, the Guardian was 400 hp. Anyone?
Bill Basler

User avatar
Don Ayers
Club Executive Team
Posts: 1681
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:05 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Post by Don Ayers » Sat May 08, 2010 7:21 am

Very cool motor and boat.

We have a few of them down here and there is a guy you should reach out to. Steve Spinharney has down a lot of research on these. He is a club member.
Image

Image
Don Ayers
1959 Riva Ariston
www.RivaForum.org
www.barrelback.com

Riv51
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Guardian 454 motor for XK 18

Post by Riv51 » Sat May 08, 2010 3:42 pm

Thanks for the lead, I will call him. Great photos!

Riv51
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Guardian 454 in XK

Post by Riv51 » Tue May 11, 2010 7:50 pm

I found that the motors were regular Chris Craft Thermocon 454/330hp engines sent out to Guardian Marine in Placentia CA where they would amp up the motor to 400 horse power, new cam, crank, ported and polished, special high performance oil pump, special 15 quart oil pan, upgraded exhaust manifold and risers (pretty cool looking polished aluminum), custom valve covers - finned like the early Corvette valve covers and a Holley 780 CFM 3310-1 Marine Carburator. If anyone can add to this data please do!
.....Mark

User avatar
Peter XK19
Posts: 90
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:18 pm
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

pics

Post by Peter XK19 » Wed May 12, 2010 2:58 am

Please share some engine pics from these very rare boats.

User avatar
Don Ayers
Club Executive Team
Posts: 1681
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:05 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Post by Don Ayers » Wed May 12, 2010 7:57 pm

Here is a little info for you on the number of XK-18 hull with the 454 Guardian

152 out of the total of 301= 50.5%
Don Ayers
1959 Riva Ariston
www.RivaForum.org
www.barrelback.com

Riv51
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

454 Guardian

Post by Riv51 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:55 pm

I am ending up having to rebuild this motor. I'm using the Guardian components on a good standard bore 454 block. Cam pistons and other internal parts are still good but I have no idea what the specs are. Anybody out there have a manual for Guardian 454? They were out of Placentia, CA. I can rebuild this but I'm not quite sure what the final hp will be...
I also rebuilt the Jacuzzi Jet pump, if anyone wants info on that let me know.

Riv51
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

'73 XK 18 photos

Post by Riv51 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:15 pm

Pictures of my 1973 XK18. Finally got it running. I tried to load a movie but it would not take. Original carpet and fiberglass. 454 Guardian motor... We'll have it water ready for sring!




Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

User avatar
Don Ayers
Club Executive Team
Posts: 1681
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:05 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Post by Don Ayers » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:51 pm

Thanks for the pics. I bet this is going to be a bunch of fun. My buddy here in Oklahoma has a great time with his. What did you end up doing to the motor?
Don Ayers
1959 Riva Ariston
www.RivaForum.org
www.barrelback.com

dustoff135
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:30 am
Location: Smyrna, GA

Post by dustoff135 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:47 pm

Is that the original gel-coat? It's hard to tell in the one photo, but it appears she still has the uber-sexy shag carpet from 197?.
Patrick

Previous projects: 1940 17' Barrelback, #71572
1971 XK19, ORCZ19-2016V

New project: Looking???

Riv51
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Post by Riv51 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:35 pm

Oh yea, original shag... It is in good shape. I'm looking forward to steam cleaning it. Some photos show the gelcoat buffed, the engine hatch photo is not buffed. I started pulling the dash off tonight to recover. The motor was very difficult. I ended up completely dissasembling. New (used) block, honed out, new rings, valve seals, gasket kit, carb rebuild, starter replaced after I gave up on the rebuilt one, new flywheel ring gear, rebuild alternator... Had to also remove the jacuzzi pump and rebuild, Cables were all corroded so they needed replaced. Everything needs touched...

User avatar
Paul P
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:48 pm
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, Cumberland River and Lake system
Contact:

454 Exhaust Size Requirement

Post by Paul P » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:52 am

Looks like fun to me!

Regarding your aluminum riser, these risers are a two size design built into one. For the small block guys use it as it came out of the box (like your installation) but for the big block motors you need to cut off the small outlet size and open up the bigger one, and use a larger exhaust tube and outlet. The motor is being choked otherwise with back pressure. Not sure you need the additional power in this rig with a 454, but you will find the exhaust diameter requirement set forth by the engine manufacturer is larger than your riser will provide. I am presently doing this same operation now, on the identical riser and log type (Glenwood / Nicson-style set-up).

You will see what I am talking about if you remove the rubber exhaust hose off your riser and stick your finger inside, feel the ridge, see how that existing neck can and should be cut off for the bigger motor.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v472/ ... arison.jpg

For my 427 project following the Chris Craft recommendations, the 427 with dual exhaust needs 3-1/2" inside diameter tube, and a 4-1/2" diameter single tube. With the larger motor you should at least be using a 3-1/2" inside diameter discharge system.

As for the power rating, for cruiser use the lower power torque priority motor would be best 100% of the time, but in a light weight boat the higher rpm and higher power motor will survive longer. It would be very easy to tweak compression and cam to get that increase in power. Compression gauges are notoriously inaccurate and this is why we always use a relative comparison between all cylinders. If they are all close enough, then we can tune the motor to run well sort of thing. As a guide, the 8.9:1 427 will produce approximately 160 to 190 psi (warm, with throttles wide open, and coil disconnected).

Good luck with the project, sure looks like a blast!

Regards, best, Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

Riv51
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Post by Riv51 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:30 pm

Wow,I never would have figured that out. So now I have to yank those manifolds back off and hack saw the ends off...

User avatar
Paul P
Posts: 620
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:48 pm
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, Cumberland River and Lake system
Contact:

Post by Paul P » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:47 pm

Yes indeed, you do!

I can tell you that darn aluminum is tougher than you think. I cut mine off to maximize the male end that inserts into the exhaust tube. This required me to grind off a pretty serious lip on the inside. If you have commercial tools this can be done easier, but I did not. I used a very large drill bit inserted into a drill stand, kept it in the vertical position and then moved the riser itself around to do the grinding. The side of the drill bit took off the material. I'm not condoning this method, I'm just saying what I used, and I'd also say, pretty much forget trying to do it with a hand held drill.

As you can see from my photo, it makes a huge difference on the performance end of the exhaust.

Regards, best,

Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

Riv51
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

454 Guardian running

Post by Riv51 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:45 pm

Got the motor running. Posted two videos on You Tube, search under Chris Craft XK 18... wwo hoo!

User avatar
Don Ayers
Club Executive Team
Posts: 1681
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:05 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Post by Don Ayers » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:02 pm

Here are your videos

<object width="500" height="405"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/W0P1f5MZnAg?fs ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/W0P1f5MZnAg?fs ... n_US&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="500" height="405"></embed></object>


<object width="500" height="405"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/GP8OBMRJxoo?fs ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/GP8OBMRJxoo?fs ... n_US&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="500" height="405"></embed></object>
Don Ayers
1959 Riva Ariston
www.RivaForum.org
www.barrelback.com

Riv51
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Videos

Post by Riv51 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 10:14 pm

Thanks Don!

lyons
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:03 pm
Location: amsterdam, ny

1971 xk-18 454

Post by lyons » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:19 pm

hi
i just bought 71xk the boat is all there including the sweet shag carpet!! that is in nice shape interior is also in good condition. the motor was rebuilt a few years ago havent got it fired up yet i have no idea about the jetdrive? the original hourmeter shows 653 is this a lot? the fibergass appears to be in good shape no cracks or major digs just dull can this be buffed? i would like to keep it all original much as possible.
any info would be a great help thanks shawn

Riv51
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Post by Riv51 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:35 pm

Sounds great! Post some photos. Yes you can rub that hull out. What color is it? Is the pump free? What motor is in it?
.....Mark

User avatar
Don Ayers
Club Executive Team
Posts: 1681
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:05 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Post by Don Ayers » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:39 pm

Welcome aboard Shawn;

You will find many knowledgeable folks on this forum regarding classic glass. I'm not one of them but I can appreciate the style and fun of the XK boats.
Don Ayers
1959 Riva Ariston
www.RivaForum.org
www.barrelback.com

lyons
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:03 pm
Location: amsterdam, ny

71 xk 18

Post by lyons » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:46 pm

it is metallic brown with white center stripe it has the guardian 454 i will post pics by the weekend when it is home. what is the best way to check out the pump?new with working on boats shawn

Riv51
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Post by Riv51 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:03 pm

Put a breaker bar on the front of the motor on the crank and very gently try to turn, the pump shaft will turn with the engine crank if all are free.
Where did you find the boat? Where are you located?

lyons
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:03 pm
Location: amsterdam, ny

71 xk

Post by lyons » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:11 pm

the engine is on the stand i should be able to turn the shaft by hand? a friend had the boat he had no time or place to work on it i have original brochures how rare is this boat? i am in amsterdam ny

Riv51
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Post by Riv51 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:23 pm

About 200 XK 18s, only about 50 with the 454. If the motor is out of the boat you should see the input shaft of the Jacuzzi pump in the boat. Reach in there and turn the shaft; it should turn freely. There are some grease fittings around the input shaft on the collar. If it is stiff you may be able to grease it... The pump is not overly complex and the rebuild not bad and you can use regular tools. I just did one. Looking forward to seeing photos to compare originality.
.....Mark

User avatar
mfine
Posts: 1405
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:16 pm
Location: Pittsford and Penn Yan NY

Post by mfine » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:27 pm

They made about 200 of them, I am not sure how many are out there still, but you can definitely find them if you look.

As for the jet, yes it should turn by hand. I don't know about the Jacuzzi pumps, but my Hamilton should never be run out of the water. You need to disconnect the drive shaft when winterizing or otherwise playing around in the driveway since the jet depends on the water for lubrication and support. Yours has a very different design so it may not have the same restriction, but I would certainly research it before running it.

I am sure you can still find the manuals and specs for the pump.

Riv51
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Post by Riv51 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:14 pm

There is a blue hull XK 18 on E Bay right now...

User avatar
Don Ayers
Club Executive Team
Posts: 1681
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:05 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Post by Don Ayers » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:14 pm

I've done the research on the 454 version. about half had the 454.
Don Ayers
1959 Riva Ariston
www.RivaForum.org
www.barrelback.com

Riv51
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Post by Riv51 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:20 pm

Don - Did you find out any other data beside production? I have not been able to locate a manual for the motor for the Guardian modifications after Chris Craft sent it off their Thermocon 454 to Guardian.

lyons
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:03 pm
Location: amsterdam, ny

71 xk 18

Post by lyons » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:30 pm

is there a way to tell how many of these boats with 454 are still around? and how much a restored one goes for? i havent seen any brown and white ones with 454 for sale anywhere.

shawn

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests