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reed and prince screws vs. frearson
Moderators: Don Ayers, Al Benton, Don Vogt
reed and prince screws vs. frearson
The new issue of Wooden Boat - July/Aug 2013 issue - has a good article on Screw Drives and discusses the differences between Phillips head and Frearson screws, among others. Worth reading. Unfortunately, it makes a common mistake, which has been debated on Boat Buzz from time to time, equating Frearson with Reed and Prince Screws.
There is a widespread belief that they are the same, but I have Jim Hastings to thank for pointing out the difference between Reed and Prince and Frearson, and will try to post a picture of the two if i can figure out how to do so from my IPhone. Jim is probably the greatest purist I know of about these things, and went so far as to acquire the machines from the closed Reed and Prince factory to manufacture their screws. To my eye the main difference is that the cross slots in the Frearson are wider than the slots in the Reed and Prince, producing a discernible visual difference. Fortunately, since my boat used only slotted screws, I dont have to be personally concerned about this, but for those of you with boats starting around 1940 or so, I understand cc used Reed and Prince. So if you dont have enough to worry about here is one more thing to add to your list!
There is a widespread belief that they are the same, but I have Jim Hastings to thank for pointing out the difference between Reed and Prince and Frearson, and will try to post a picture of the two if i can figure out how to do so from my IPhone. Jim is probably the greatest purist I know of about these things, and went so far as to acquire the machines from the closed Reed and Prince factory to manufacture their screws. To my eye the main difference is that the cross slots in the Frearson are wider than the slots in the Reed and Prince, producing a discernible visual difference. Fortunately, since my boat used only slotted screws, I dont have to be personally concerned about this, but for those of you with boats starting around 1940 or so, I understand cc used Reed and Prince. So if you dont have enough to worry about here is one more thing to add to your list!
1938 Chris Craft 17' Deluxe Runabout "Jennifer II"
Re: reed and prince screws vs. frearson
Here is a picture of the two screws with the reed and prince on the bottom.
1938 Chris Craft 17' Deluxe Runabout "Jennifer II"
Re: reed and prince screws vs. frearson
Hi Don:
Thanks for that info.
I thought they were interchangable names for the same screw head
It is always good to learn something new, I am just not sure what I am going to do with it now.
Thanks for that info.
I thought they were interchangable names for the same screw head
It is always good to learn something new, I am just not sure what I am going to do with it now.
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC
1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"
Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat
1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"
Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat
Re: reed and prince screws vs. frearson
Well, i suppose a purist would use reed and prince in restoration, if they are available. Also one might want to avoid mixing the two types where visible.
1938 Chris Craft 17' Deluxe Runabout "Jennifer II"
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Re: reed and prince screws vs. frearson
OK.....now that I have my pipe lit. In light of this extraordinary revelation I think we should consider and address a potential judging conundrum before it escalates to panic at ACBS Headquarters.
For those of us going for the ultimate "best preserved" and wish to reuse all exposed original fasteners should we be concerned that our originals that have been "cleaned up" to present uniform width in the cross cut might be mistaken now for Frearson due to extra width?
Will there be a mandatory deduction unless we can prove they are ,in fact, originals that have been cleaned up like the deck seams on our original decks? How are we to prove this? I heard that Chris Craft stamped the hull number into the screws but have yet to verify. Maybe Don or Brian can chime in here on this. Will we perhaps need to provide carbon dating, MRI, or some other forensic proof ???
I don't think I can take this pressure. Its just too much for me to contemplate.
I am dumping all my post war stuff and sticking with with pre-war.
Just kidding, this is very cool info.
For those of us going for the ultimate "best preserved" and wish to reuse all exposed original fasteners should we be concerned that our originals that have been "cleaned up" to present uniform width in the cross cut might be mistaken now for Frearson due to extra width?
Will there be a mandatory deduction unless we can prove they are ,in fact, originals that have been cleaned up like the deck seams on our original decks? How are we to prove this? I heard that Chris Craft stamped the hull number into the screws but have yet to verify. Maybe Don or Brian can chime in here on this. Will we perhaps need to provide carbon dating, MRI, or some other forensic proof ???
I don't think I can take this pressure. Its just too much for me to contemplate.
I am dumping all my post war stuff and sticking with with pre-war.
Just kidding, this is very cool info.
Greg Wallace 23 Custom 22166 former Chris-Craft dealer Russells Point, Oh.
Re: reed and prince screws vs. frearson
Yes, no doubt there will be panic in some judging circles. Ha. For example, at least in the past, at Tahoe all the screw slots on deck hardware were supposed to be in alignment. Can you imagine anyone at the factory worrying about that?
1938 Chris Craft 17' Deluxe Runabout "Jennifer II"
Re: reed and prince screws vs. frearson
I've got a 1941 25' sportsman with the optional sedan roof. I haven't started the restoration yet. Its a very original boat. The boat was built with slotted screws and the sedan roof yep you guess it was built with reed and prince screws. It has reed and prince chrome plated screws attaching it to the boat and everything else except the roof is attached with slotted screws. Oh what to do I do so the judges don't get mad !!
- JohnKadimik
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Re: reed and prince screws vs. frearson
Take pictures Greg.
Re: reed and prince screws vs. frearson
well, this thread was a little bit tongue in cheek. First rule, dont panic. If r&p screws are available, you can use them. If not, frearson will be just fine, imho. One of the problems with judging, and I have great sympathy for judges, as the overwhelming majority take on this voluntary task with the best of intentions,is that the culture of judging as it has developed in the hobby, tends to focus on the trees sometimes, and misses the forest. I think if your boat is well restored, it should not matter.
The important thing in restoring a boat is creating something you like and will enjoy using. The judging is secondary.
The important thing in restoring a boat is creating something you like and will enjoy using. The judging is secondary.
1938 Chris Craft 17' Deluxe Runabout "Jennifer II"
- JohnKadimik
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Re: reed and prince screws vs. frearson
Agree Don, but judging has always been " as delivered ".
- ballardMike
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Re: reed and prince screws vs. frearson
I'm guessing CC didn't fret too much over which screws they were using at the time as long as they fit and looked good.
Now go outside and play!!
Now go outside and play!!
'67 Cavalier Futura 33'
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