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Going to build a shop.
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- NOT Firewood
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Going to build a shop.
We are dry where I live so I will need to keep the Humidity up in the shop I am going to build. I have read that I could only pour half of the shop with concrete and leave the other half gravel so that the shop is naturally humidfiyed Is this true?
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Re: Going to build a shop.
How will the shop be used?
Re: Going to build a shop.
If there is no water in the ground, the floor won't make a difference. Also concrete conducts water fairly well which is a bigger problem.
I would suggest a concrete floor with at least light insulation and a vapor barrier underneath. You will then be able to run a humidifier without the floor sucking all the moisture out. Obviously, the rest of the building needs to be fairly tight, and insulated with vapor barriers as well.
A cold floor can cause condensation, which can make humidifying nearly impossible. So, even in a fairly warm climate, I would put an inch or two of foam board under the floor to keep the temps more even.
I would suggest a concrete floor with at least light insulation and a vapor barrier underneath. You will then be able to run a humidifier without the floor sucking all the moisture out. Obviously, the rest of the building needs to be fairly tight, and insulated with vapor barriers as well.
A cold floor can cause condensation, which can make humidifying nearly impossible. So, even in a fairly warm climate, I would put an inch or two of foam board under the floor to keep the temps more even.
- NOT Firewood
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:25 pm
- Location: Nipawin Saskatchewan, Canada
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Re: Going to build a shop.
Half of the shop willl be for storage of my skiff and the other half will be a project area/parking of my truck. It will be heated all winter long. What is the best humifyier to use? Are you saying that I should pour the entire floor with insulation underneath?
Re: Going to build a shop.
I'd do in the floor heat.
Jim Staib
www.finewoodboats.com
1947 Penn Yan 12' Cartopper WXH474611
1950 Chris-Craft 22' Sportsman U-22-1532
1957 Chris-Craft 26' Sea Skiff SK-26-515
1968 Century 17' Resorter FG-68-174
www.finewoodboats.com
1947 Penn Yan 12' Cartopper WXH474611
1950 Chris-Craft 22' Sportsman U-22-1532
1957 Chris-Craft 26' Sea Skiff SK-26-515
1968 Century 17' Resorter FG-68-174
Re: Going to build a shop.
I like the radiant heat idea, but would put a wall between storage and work areas.
Work area heated with cement floor, storage area not heated with stone or gravel floor.
IMHO wood boats do not like to be stored in heated environments, they just simply dry out too much.
Sounds like a nice project.
Here are a couple of other threads on this subject.
http://www.chris-craft.org/discussion/v ... =11&t=8491
http://www.chris-craft.org/discussion/v ... =12&t=8600
Work area heated with cement floor, storage area not heated with stone or gravel floor.
IMHO wood boats do not like to be stored in heated environments, they just simply dry out too much.
Sounds like a nice project.
Here are a couple of other threads on this subject.
http://www.chris-craft.org/discussion/v ... =11&t=8491
http://www.chris-craft.org/discussion/v ... =12&t=8600
Last edited by tkhersom on Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Troy in ANE - Former President CCABC
1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"
Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat
1957 CC 21' Continental "Yorktown" (Mom's boat)
https://www.chris-craft.org/boats/22625/
1985 Formula 242LS "Gottago"
1991 Formula 36PC "Band Aids"
Life Is Too Short To Own An Ugly Boat
Re: Going to build a shop.
If you are going to heat it, even a little bit, and run a humidifier, yes a layer of foam under the entire concrete floor. You need to keep the moisture from escaping and not have a huge cold surface for condensation.NOT Firewood wrote:Are you saying that I should pour the entire floor with insulation underneath?
You could also go with Troy's suggestion of using a divider wall, but if the area you live in is naturally dry and warm that may not be as good as running a humidifier.
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Re: Going to build a shop.
Jim Staib has it right. Install a radiant floor system. If you can stand on cold concrete for eight hours straight now, I'll garawntee when you get older your dogs will scream for a heated floor... CQ
Re: Going to build a shop.
Radiant heat in a slab is definitely the best way to heat, but not always the most practical way and certainly not the cheapest. There should always be a vapor barrier and two inch foam insulation under the slab. You want to heat the slab, not the ground underneath. Then you have to install your rebar to reinforce the slab and to attach the radiant pipe zones. The slab should be a minimum of six inches thick. If you decide to heat this way you'll want to find people with a lot of experience with these systems to do the work. It's expensive to do it right and only practical if it's going to stay on all winter. I store my boat in an unheated gravel floor shed. Our shop is on a slab and heated with a gas fired ceiling mounted forced air unit. A simple boat storage shed and a separate garage/workshop could work.
- NOT Firewood
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- Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:25 pm
- Location: Nipawin Saskatchewan, Canada
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Re: Going to build a shop.
Radiants scare me, reason being if something quits at -40 Degrees C (or F they are the same at this temp) for any amount of time then I have a heck of a mess, and the cost also scare me. So I think my best option is to have a full cement floor with insulation underneath and have a humidfyier as well and heat with a Nat gas space heater. I should of also said the storage is not really storage it is place to park my skiff so I can work on it in the winter.
Re: Going to build a shop.
I built my workshop at home 15 years ago and used radiant floor heating. The heating companies at that time wanted $10.00 sq.ft. For the install. At 8500 sq, ft that's a lot of money that we didn't have. I then said to the supplier, what is the cost of the materials, $14,000.00, or about the same as the materials to force air heat. I have an outside wood burner as the heat source, with natural gass backup. In 15 yrs, never used the backup.
My Dad and I did the install of the radiant floor system. Saved $70,000.00 now the details.
For a workshop/ storage area, put the floor into 2 or 3 zones. As then you can easily keep different temps. Don't worry about insulating the full slab. We only insulated the outer edge of the building with a 10 ft insulating blanket, 8 ft under the floor and 2 ft up the wall. Vapor barrier under the entire slab. 5" slab thickness. With rebar. Tubing tied to the rebar at 12" tube centers.
Ground temp here in NE Ohio is 51degrees average, with 3 ft freeze limit. With the above building, if the heat goes down, the building has never gets to 45 degrees. Building is pole barn construction with 8" insulation in the walls, and 16" blown in insulation in the ceiling. The important thing to understand is, what is the temperature loss factor of the building. In this case I have a 5 degree temperature loss. Example, to maintain a 60 degree temp. I need a 65 degree floor temp, even at 0-5 degrees F outside. From this you can see that it is more important to insulate the building above ground than the floor.
We used the Wirsboro system and have been more than happy with it.
Now what they don't tell you as a bonus. Not having the workshop floor insulated, in summer, if you keep the doors shut, the workshop feels like it is air conditioned. We then turn on the heating system to call for heat, but with no heat source, this circulates the cold water from the unisulated area to the workshop floor. We then use a ceiling fan to blow the warm air in the shop onto the floor to cool the shop. AC not needed. We then open the shop in the evenings.
Humidity is not a problem, we run a small humidifier to keep 40-50%. If you have a greater heat loss factor, then the floor must have more temp, then also more humidity control. This the comes back to the insulation of the building.
The boats love this as there is not a big temp change over the winters and the wood stays stable.
The other bonus is also, all your tools, equipment, etc, is all at the same temp, engines start easy, and makes life easy.
I also have an Ahrens Fox piston pump fire engine, and various vintage cars, never winterize these.
Radiant floor heat is not the same as radiant tube heating. My floor is about 270 tons of concrete, this takes a lot of energy to change it's temp. Takes about 8 hrs to rise 15 degrees.
PM me for more info
Steve Littin
My Dad and I did the install of the radiant floor system. Saved $70,000.00 now the details.
For a workshop/ storage area, put the floor into 2 or 3 zones. As then you can easily keep different temps. Don't worry about insulating the full slab. We only insulated the outer edge of the building with a 10 ft insulating blanket, 8 ft under the floor and 2 ft up the wall. Vapor barrier under the entire slab. 5" slab thickness. With rebar. Tubing tied to the rebar at 12" tube centers.
Ground temp here in NE Ohio is 51degrees average, with 3 ft freeze limit. With the above building, if the heat goes down, the building has never gets to 45 degrees. Building is pole barn construction with 8" insulation in the walls, and 16" blown in insulation in the ceiling. The important thing to understand is, what is the temperature loss factor of the building. In this case I have a 5 degree temperature loss. Example, to maintain a 60 degree temp. I need a 65 degree floor temp, even at 0-5 degrees F outside. From this you can see that it is more important to insulate the building above ground than the floor.
We used the Wirsboro system and have been more than happy with it.
Now what they don't tell you as a bonus. Not having the workshop floor insulated, in summer, if you keep the doors shut, the workshop feels like it is air conditioned. We then turn on the heating system to call for heat, but with no heat source, this circulates the cold water from the unisulated area to the workshop floor. We then use a ceiling fan to blow the warm air in the shop onto the floor to cool the shop. AC not needed. We then open the shop in the evenings.
Humidity is not a problem, we run a small humidifier to keep 40-50%. If you have a greater heat loss factor, then the floor must have more temp, then also more humidity control. This the comes back to the insulation of the building.
The boats love this as there is not a big temp change over the winters and the wood stays stable.
The other bonus is also, all your tools, equipment, etc, is all at the same temp, engines start easy, and makes life easy.
I also have an Ahrens Fox piston pump fire engine, and various vintage cars, never winterize these.
Radiant floor heat is not the same as radiant tube heating. My floor is about 270 tons of concrete, this takes a lot of energy to change it's temp. Takes about 8 hrs to rise 15 degrees.
PM me for more info
Steve Littin
Re: Going to build a shop.
Here is a shot of the tubes. Here you go to Menards and buy the tubing. Send the info to the manufacturer and they will send you the installation plan. None of the tubes are over 250' long.
Jim Staib
www.finewoodboats.com
1947 Penn Yan 12' Cartopper WXH474611
1950 Chris-Craft 22' Sportsman U-22-1532
1957 Chris-Craft 26' Sea Skiff SK-26-515
1968 Century 17' Resorter FG-68-174
www.finewoodboats.com
1947 Penn Yan 12' Cartopper WXH474611
1950 Chris-Craft 22' Sportsman U-22-1532
1957 Chris-Craft 26' Sea Skiff SK-26-515
1968 Century 17' Resorter FG-68-174
Re: Going to build a shop.
Check out Hydrofogger
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