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From Archive: Heard of anything like this? by Mechanicer

If it doesn't pertain to metal, wood, wire or fabric—but it is about vintage Chris-Crafts, ask your question or give your advice here.

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From Archive: Heard of anything like this? by Mechanicer

Post by Club Archivist » Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:37 am

Wilson and list, have you heard of any other states doing what Ohio is doing?  My goofy state lawmakers have deemed that all watercraft title registrations must now have a 12 digit hull number for the vessel.  And therefore the vessel must physically bear a 12 digit number.  I believe that the law now states that if your boat is older than 1972, you can still buy new liscense stickers for your own use with an old hull number.  But you cannot sell the boat with it's original hull number if it is not 12 digits in length.  And if it is newer than 1977, you cannot even renew your license sticker without the 12 didgit number.  Those thoughtfull beauracrats in Columbus have even stated that you need to contact your boat's manufacturer in order to get help to "renumber" it.  Or you can have their jackbooted goons come out and butcher your hull for you, adding whatever nonsense they deem appropriate, wherever on the boat they deem appropriate.

Since Chris Craft has been through several different total ownership upheavals during it's history, I doubt that the current version of the company even has a clue as to what to think of my 50 year old relic of the past, let alone assign it a new hull number, or even care for that matter.

And I think that it will seriously affect the value of our antique boats to have new and different designations assigned to their hulls and to be physically mangled to boot!  Imagine 12 numbers engraved on the upper right hand corner of your beautifully varnished mahogany transom, the same location where plastic boat hull numbers are found!

This is an ugly issue that I feel drastically affects the historical signifigance of our hobby and could affect it's future through needless non- original modification and the  diminishment of value that it could cause.  Not to mention the cosmetic effect on a restored structure.  If only antique boats from certain states are required to be butchered up in this manner, they certainly would suffer in show judging, comparison and value to a similiar unmolested boat from another state that does not have this requirement.  Also, as we know, our old 6 digit (or applicable number of digits) hull numbers make up the the very core and base of our historical knowledge and information and give us a feel for the exclusiveness of our boats.

This requirement must also be affecting the antique auto/truck hobby in Ohio as well.  But the shear fact of the smaller numbers of boats sold, and the materials used in construction makes it a bigger issue to us in my opinion.

I feel that we, as a group of caretakers of our examples of fine craftsmanship and history need to overcome this wrong- minded afront to our hobby.  If Ohio and other states have done this, I would imagine that others will follow.  I have to wonder if this is done for theft tracking, or maybe for computer software issues or something.  If it was the latter, wouldn't it have been simpler to just add the appropriate number of zeros to the paper title documents than to mame beautifull antique structures?  Or how hard could it be to track down a 50 year old wood cabin cruiser, a survivor amongst maybe 50 or 100 or so others like it in the entire world, making a quick getaway at 18 knots or so?

Sheeesh!!!!!!!!!!!    This is brought to you by the very same government that wants to take portions of shoreline landowner's property away from them (along the Lake Erie shore), improvements and all!  Where will this New World Order ever end?  It makes me ashamed to be an Ohioan.


Bret "Adonis III" 1953  35'  Commander C 35  375
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From Archive: Heard of anything like this? by Lee Sharp

Post by Club Archivist » Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:38 am

Texas "used" to allow documented vessels to forgo numbering, and avoid state tax and licensing. Now they will have all boats pay for licensing, but they will forgo numbers for documented vessels. (Thank God) However, they will be collecting tax on all documented vessels purchased after 1982 (I think) Texas is now crowned the new King of retroactive taxation. What is happening is that states are desperate for cash and are trying to find it anywhere they can. The only thing you can do is prove to them it will cost more in money or trouble than the tax will generate.

Lee
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From Archive: Heard of anything like this? by George Dvorak

Post by Club Archivist » Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:39 am

Bret:

Isn't Ohio the same state that told the Wright brothers they weren't interested in having the Wright brothers shop as a museum? Now it's in Michigan!

George
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From Archive: Heard of anything like this? by Mvchriscraft1

Post by Club Archivist » Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:41 am

My advice would be to try to find someone in the state legislature that has an old boat and do a letter writing campaign explaining how the state will be liable for the decrease in value of a classic, antique, or historical interest vessel due to their actions,,,,, they HATE the idea of upset voters,,, but are most interested in their own property. Ya never know,, it might just work ! By the way,,, thanks for giving me something new to worry about out here in California ! I needed that !

David
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From Archive: Heard of anything like this? by Tom King

Post by Club Archivist » Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:42 am

Also contacting the Northcoast/Ohio Chapter of the ACBS might be an option.

tom
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Post by Club Archivist » Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:43 am

Bret:
 
This matter of affixing new numbers to old boats was mentioned at the ACBS quarterly board meeting at Skaneatles, NY last July. As described by Gene Porter, the ACBS point person on governmental affairs, it is part of some federal Coast Guard regulation. He advised that since it is so onerous  the Coast Guard was not implimenting rules to enforce it...When told by somebody in the audience that Ohio was following up, he said he'd check and let us all know so we could start the letter writing and legislative contact campaign.
 
I was invited to be the speaker at the North Coast Ohio ACBS Chapter annual meeting in Cleveland last month and those I talked to about it while there indicated that they had heard no more.
 
Someone later on says that Texas will be retrocatively taxing old boats but actually Texas is the latest of states to pass legislation favoring antique & classic boats. A story explaining is in the Winter Brass Bell which should be in member mail boxes in a a week or so.
 
December issue of Sea Magazine suggests that a proposed  California "boat tax" bill voted down earlier is not dead. For more info see < www.rboc.org >
 
If I were you, I'd call or see my  Ohio state legislator(s) pronto.
 
Wilson
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From Archive: Heard of anything like this? by Skiperbob

Post by Club Archivist » Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:44 am

Wilson,
 
Is this not a legislative issue that could effect every member of the Club over time, and therefore be something that the Club membership might be guided into assisting this member and all of the members in Ohio, rather than having them stand alone?

Skiperbob
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From Archive: Heard of anything like this? by Chris Daraska

Post by Club Archivist » Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:46 am

There is a bill in Illinois house of reps to require all boats to have a 1 inch reflective stripe around the hull,imagine that!!

Chris
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Hull Identification Numbers

Post by Tom Riggle » Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:18 pm

Georgia has been quite reasonable in this regard but that may be changing. I got my 1952 CC registered here last fall with no problem but I did have a Michigan registration to refer to.
However, my friend just finished building his own, beautiful, 22' gentleman's racer and the State wants a HIN before they will issue Georgia registration numbers. They sent a couple officers out to his house with the intent to put on a pretty large, ugly sticker on his transom with a HIN the state made up. This resulted in a stalemate while my friend investigates and considers what to do. One alternative is to say OK, go ahead officer, put that big ugly sticker on on my boat. Register the boat. Then, go get a small brass plaque from the trophy store with the number on it. Tack it on the inside of the engine cover and then refinish the transom. :)
Tom - Displaced Michigander

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Post by hojo » Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:41 pm

In Maryland the Department of Natural Resourses takes your origional number, makes a note of it in your records and then assigns a new MD number which they say has to be affixed to the boat in a certain location. So far I have ignored the affixing requirements which will in some future date perhaps cause fines by the Marine Police. It is easy to understand why they can not use the original numbers since most manufacturers did not follow any particular system.
If you are restoring a boat anywhere register it in your name and take pictures of it FIRST. My friend restored a boat from a basket case and when he went to register it here he was charged taxes on the RESTORED value as determined by estimaters sent to his house by the state! It was a very expensive problem as they over estimated the value based upon their own inflated idea of the vessel's worth.
- Howard Johnson

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Post by E-J Ohler » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:50 am

Hojo
We all agree that we don't want ugly State imposed numbers anywhere on our hulls, but we all(or at least most of us) have them on our bows' brightsides. For my MI registration numbers I put them on a piece of clear lexan attached with two small brass screws. Not too intrusive.
As for the value of a property (boat, car, house) we all want the government to think it is low when paying taxes untill we want to sell it than we want the buyer to pay top dollar (see that 17' Ski-Boat on ebay)
I can't blame those government guys that visited your friend although I will; because my boat isn't worth anything as it is almost 50 years old and built out of wood and never can compete with a new fiberglass boat, but wait don't some people out there pay $50,000 plus for some of these old woodies???? and don't even use them every weekend.
Value is in the eye of the beholder.

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