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Great Article in Classic Boat
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- bongocruiser
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:08 pm
- Location: Lake Winola, Pa
- Contact:
Great Article in Classic Boat
I know many here belong to multiple clubs and magazines. One of the most interesting articles I've ever read was in this months (may/june 2012) Classic Boatting magazine called 'The Auction Shenanigans' about possible shill bidders at the now famous Mecum boat auction back in 2010.
I bought a boat there but it was a lower end example and I don't think it was shilled. I could see who I was bidding against and there were no phony phone bidders on mine.
There were some folks warning of this in advance of the auction and it looks like those warnings may have been accurate. No wonder Mecum settled that suit before any more damaging information leaked out. Not a very flattering arcticle for Mecum, was it?
The whole event was a great time,though.
There were some folks warning of this in advance of the auction and it looks like those warnings may have been accurate. No wonder Mecum settled that suit before any more damaging information leaked out. Not a very flattering arcticle for Mecum, was it?
The whole event was a great time,though.
1926 Mullins 16' Outboard Special
1940 CC 19'Custom
1946 Gar Wood 22' 6" Sedan
1946 16' Peterbrough Falcon
1947 CC 16' Special Runabout
1947 Chris Craft 22' Sportsman
1948 CC 25' Sportsman Sedan
1959 Feather Craft Islander Express Cruiser
1961 CC 21' Continental
1965 Glastron Futura 500 V -164
1965 CC Sea Skiff 24'
1940 CC 19'Custom
1946 Gar Wood 22' 6" Sedan
1946 16' Peterbrough Falcon
1947 CC 16' Special Runabout
1947 Chris Craft 22' Sportsman
1948 CC 25' Sportsman Sedan
1959 Feather Craft Islander Express Cruiser
1961 CC 21' Continental
1965 Glastron Futura 500 V -164
1965 CC Sea Skiff 24'
- Kerry Price
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:23 pm
- Location: Austin, TX
- Contact:
Interesting and disturbing. If this story is true it borders on criminal. Based on what I have heard discussing the article with others in our community is that this has been known for some time and is just now coming to light. That it has been kept quiet is shameful considering how many boats that were sold to people who may not be aware that they may have been either bidding against phony competition and paid too much or possible were the top bidder only to be out bid by a fake buyer. It now opens the possibility that every sale or non sale was a fraud. Based on the story it would appear that Mr. Mecum has only had to refund the money on one transaction with no other action being taken. Again, if this story is true it corrupts the future of boat auctions as a means for selling and buying boats.
I am further troubled in that the article does not show an author. This is not acceptable in my view. Classic boating should not have published such a potentially damaging article without listing it's source.
I am further troubled in that the article does not show an author. This is not acceptable in my view. Classic boating should not have published such a potentially damaging article without listing it's source.
1946 20' Custom Runabout: R-20-092
1938 19' Sportsman: 19501
http://www.chris-craft.org/registry/vie ... oat_id=532
1938 19' Sportsman: 19501
http://www.chris-craft.org/registry/vie ... oat_id=532
Hi Kerry - I did not know the article has no author attributed. I read it from a copy scanned to me as I inadvertantly let my subscription lapse. I think it is both shameful and inexplicable that this would be published without attribution. If an individual is not willing to sign his name to his work, whether it is an article like this or even a post on a chat board, then I find the value of whatever he is saying to be inherently diminished, and substanitally so. For validity to be imputed by a remotely incredulous reader, I don't think the actual identity of an author is too much to ask. I am almost shocked that any commericial magazine would publish an article in this way. If I believed what I wrote was true, and had done my research I would be pleased to put my name on it.
Still, many of these rumors and variations on them had been floating around for awhile. The articles provided more detail. I think we knew something was fishy when a bunch of the boats mysteriously appeared for sale later on and at Geneva, if not sooner as the articles suggests. If true it is disgraceful conduct, and no wonder Mecum settled it - the next round of discovery likely would have revealed even more unethical conduct. Why should anyone be exposed to this? Personally, I would rather give my commission as a seller to one of the brokers we all know, guys who support the hobby and are out there, not bad actors like this. By the way - buyers were promised titles to boats bought there. I got mine last week - over 18 months from the purchase date. It took a long time and a lot of griping to get it. If they have the gall to try another boat auction, I will make sure I am far far away, and would not partonize them.
Paul H.
Still, many of these rumors and variations on them had been floating around for awhile. The articles provided more detail. I think we knew something was fishy when a bunch of the boats mysteriously appeared for sale later on and at Geneva, if not sooner as the articles suggests. If true it is disgraceful conduct, and no wonder Mecum settled it - the next round of discovery likely would have revealed even more unethical conduct. Why should anyone be exposed to this? Personally, I would rather give my commission as a seller to one of the brokers we all know, guys who support the hobby and are out there, not bad actors like this. By the way - buyers were promised titles to boats bought there. I got mine last week - over 18 months from the purchase date. It took a long time and a lot of griping to get it. If they have the gall to try another boat auction, I will make sure I am far far away, and would not partonize them.
Paul H.
1926 Mullins 16' Outboard Special
1940 CC 19'Custom
1946 Gar Wood 22' 6" Sedan
1946 16' Peterbrough Falcon
1947 CC 16' Special Runabout
1947 Chris Craft 22' Sportsman
1948 CC 25' Sportsman Sedan
1959 Feather Craft Islander Express Cruiser
1961 CC 21' Continental
1965 Glastron Futura 500 V -164
1965 CC Sea Skiff 24'
1940 CC 19'Custom
1946 Gar Wood 22' 6" Sedan
1946 16' Peterbrough Falcon
1947 CC 16' Special Runabout
1947 Chris Craft 22' Sportsman
1948 CC 25' Sportsman Sedan
1959 Feather Craft Islander Express Cruiser
1961 CC 21' Continental
1965 Glastron Futura 500 V -164
1965 CC Sea Skiff 24'
The way I understood it the article was taken from discovery material and depositions from the lawsuit.
Jim Staib
www.finewoodboats.com
1947 Penn Yan 12' Cartopper WXH474611
1950 Chris-Craft 22' Sportsman U-22-1532
1957 Chris-Craft 26' Sea Skiff SK-26-515
1968 Century 17' Resorter FG-68-174
www.finewoodboats.com
1947 Penn Yan 12' Cartopper WXH474611
1950 Chris-Craft 22' Sportsman U-22-1532
1957 Chris-Craft 26' Sea Skiff SK-26-515
1968 Century 17' Resorter FG-68-174
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- Posts: 246
- Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:47 pm
- Contact:
I was watching “Chasing Classic Cars” on the Velocity network a few weeks ago. For those who are not familiar with this program it is about a guy who tracks down antique and classic cars for restoration and then ether sells them or has then auctioned off. He was on stage with one of his cars being auctioned off and he stated on air that “the auction house has the right to bid the auction up to the reserve with their own personnel in the audience”. I was shocked that this was going on. I have never sold anything at an auction and I don’t know the “rules”. My question is, was this the problem in the article or something else (Canceled my subscription a wile back).
There is nothing new in this topic. The lawsuit was public knowledge long ago and documents could be made available to the public.
I would surmise that the Classic Boating magazine article was written by the editorial staff of the magazine.
The "shenanigans" are absolutely no surprise to me.
Andreas
I would surmise that the Classic Boating magazine article was written by the editorial staff of the magazine.
The "shenanigans" are absolutely no surprise to me.
Andreas
- Kerry Price
- Posts: 234
- Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:23 pm
- Location: Austin, TX
- Contact:
Guess I'm the only one on the planet that never heard of any of this. Considering that I have been a member of this group since it's inception ( member #12). I regularly log on to the other most popular wooden boat web sites and subscribe to all of the major wooden boat magazines. Heck, I was even at the actual auction and still not a peep of this ever mentioned as far as I know. I don't care about gossip for gossip sake but this information is much more. It is almost like the story has been deliberately been kept quiet. Who are we trying to protect anyway. I for one hope that this is not the end of this story and if there is truth to what is alleged that those responsible pay dearly. I will never have anything to do with Mecum and I can't imagine how they can in good faith conduct another auction. It is a shame.
1946 20' Custom Runabout: R-20-092
1938 19' Sportsman: 19501
http://www.chris-craft.org/registry/vie ... oat_id=532
1938 19' Sportsman: 19501
http://www.chris-craft.org/registry/vie ... oat_id=532
Kerry - I am surprised by the fact you had not heard of it. It was perhaps not splashed over the front page of the NY Times but it was quite well known. There was a website up that detailed some of this. The article in CB filled in some of the details from the deposition testimony but the gist of it all was fairly widely known. The whole thing was rotten by the sounds of it and I hope it is not repeated in our hobby.
Probably would have been better for the banks to foreclose on Warner and let them auction it off, but once Mecum actually bought in by guarenteeing the banks dough, they became a defacto principal and not an agent for a third party. Their conduct is almost certainly an offshoot of that unusual relationship - I did not know they had guarenteed a sum to the banks in advance. We were basically bidding on their own boats in a way. All this should have been disclosed in advance but I don't believe it was.
Probably would have been better for the banks to foreclose on Warner and let them auction it off, but once Mecum actually bought in by guarenteeing the banks dough, they became a defacto principal and not an agent for a third party. Their conduct is almost certainly an offshoot of that unusual relationship - I did not know they had guarenteed a sum to the banks in advance. We were basically bidding on their own boats in a way. All this should have been disclosed in advance but I don't believe it was.
1926 Mullins 16' Outboard Special
1940 CC 19'Custom
1946 Gar Wood 22' 6" Sedan
1946 16' Peterbrough Falcon
1947 CC 16' Special Runabout
1947 Chris Craft 22' Sportsman
1948 CC 25' Sportsman Sedan
1959 Feather Craft Islander Express Cruiser
1961 CC 21' Continental
1965 Glastron Futura 500 V -164
1965 CC Sea Skiff 24'
1940 CC 19'Custom
1946 Gar Wood 22' 6" Sedan
1946 16' Peterbrough Falcon
1947 CC 16' Special Runabout
1947 Chris Craft 22' Sportsman
1948 CC 25' Sportsman Sedan
1959 Feather Craft Islander Express Cruiser
1961 CC 21' Continental
1965 Glastron Futura 500 V -164
1965 CC Sea Skiff 24'
- bongocruiser
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:08 pm
- Location: Lake Winola, Pa
- Contact:
More opinions..
I follow this hobby and belong to most of the major publications but this was the first I heard of this scam. I think It's good we talk about it here and get the word out. I found it interesting that some coments implied this happens often in auctions and it's not a huge deal. While I'm not it the category of those who buy these $100,000+ boats, the thought that puffers and shill bidders ran the prices up on them as part of an inside deal between Mecum and his croneys seems to me to belong in criminal court even if they reached an out of court settlement in civil court. I'm not a lawyer but I would think the law over contracts and auctions would be very clear.
I'm with Kerry. Been doing wood boats since 1965 and although I am not a regular at auctions I have been to my share. Had I known this I wouldnt have wasted my time going to Winstead.
I also had a customer that bought a boat there, tried to pic it up for 6 months, and was continually told "we will have someone there next week to meet you".
I also had a customer that bought a boat there, tried to pic it up for 6 months, and was continually told "we will have someone there next week to meet you".
Last edited by boat_art on Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.boatartgallery.com
1956 CC Connie 47'
1959 Caulkins bartender
1965 Cheoy Lee Frisco Flyer
1953 Chris Craft Holiday
1941 Chris Craft Deluxe
Plus 8-12 customer boats at any time
God don't count the days spent messing around in wood boats.
1956 CC Connie 47'
1959 Caulkins bartender
1965 Cheoy Lee Frisco Flyer
1953 Chris Craft Holiday
1941 Chris Craft Deluxe
Plus 8-12 customer boats at any time
God don't count the days spent messing around in wood boats.
Auctions are a dirty game whose very purpose is to manipulate buyers. They use time preassure, emotion and confusion to seperate buyers from their money. The shills are just part of the process of misleading you on interest and value. The accusations against Mecum are old news in the classic car world, where savy buyers know what's going on, expect it and accept it. There is no reason for us to allow the same practices to creep into our hobby, and I would hope the need for a higher level of buyer due diligence will keep legitimate buyers from ever flocking to the auction model.
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