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1940 Deluxe stern pole length.

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bjornbakken
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1940 Deluxe stern pole length.

Post by bjornbakken » Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:13 pm

I'm using the winter to gather the missing hardware for my project, and would like to get confirmation on the correct length on the stern pole for 1940 (to 42) 17' Deluxe? I have seen both 26" and 30" used, and lengths from 24" to 36" are available.

Regarding the bow pole, I assume 18" is correct since this is the only length available with a 3/4" base diameter.

Thanks!

Bjorn B.
1940 17' Chris Craft Deluxe
1958 Riva Florida No. 319
Lined up:
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Brian Robinson
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Post by Brian Robinson » Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:23 pm

Bjorn,

The Materials Specs call out a 30" pole, including the K&S globe. 16"x24" ensign, two brass screw eyes.

It cost C-C $2.662 for the parts in 1940.
-Brian
1923 Hackercraft 23' Dolphin #03
1938 Gar Wood 22' Streamliner #6256 Empress
1952 Chris~Craft 19' Racing Runabout #363 Thunderstruck
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Post by bjornbakken » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:37 pm

Thank you Brian. Wow, a documented answer in 10 minutes!

While I have you "on the line", is it correct with a trim ring between the lift ring and deck on the 17' Deluxe?

Again, thanks!

Bjorn.
1940 17' Chris Craft Deluxe
1958 Riva Florida No. 319
Lined up:
1955 Riva Ariston
1961 Riva Super Florida
1960 Riva Florida

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Brian Robinson
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Post by Brian Robinson » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:57 pm

On that particular style ring, yes.
-Brian
1923 Hackercraft 23' Dolphin #03
1938 Gar Wood 22' Streamliner #6256 Empress
1952 Chris~Craft 19' Racing Runabout #363 Thunderstruck
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Charles Wilson
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Post by Charles Wilson » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:34 am

So Brian,

A question I asked a while back got walked on before it was answered is... where is the upper eye located, in the hole on the bee hive chrome fixture or what distance south of the fixture. In closely looking at both photo's and boats on the line, I see it both ways?

Thanks for your answer in advance.
"The fender guy" in Idaho.

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Bill Basler
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Post by Bill Basler » Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:12 pm

The proper position for the upper eye on my poles (1942 barrelback and 1936 Gar Wood) is within the chrome beehive base itself.
Bill Basler

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Brian Robinson
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Post by Brian Robinson » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:23 pm

Charles,

What Bill said. That is pretty much the general rule. Lots of folks mistakingly put both screw eyes in the varnished part.

Chris-Craft and most others did not use "skipper clips" or split rings to attach the flags to the screw eyes either. They just opened up the brass screw eyes up with some pliers, inserted the flag grommets, and closed them back up. This is really the best way to do it too, it keeps the flag straight and taught.
-Brian
1923 Hackercraft 23' Dolphin #03
1938 Gar Wood 22' Streamliner #6256 Empress
1952 Chris~Craft 19' Racing Runabout #363 Thunderstruck
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Charles Wilson
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flag pole/flag location and attachment

Post by Charles Wilson » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:07 pm

So that would be the only exposed brass on the whole boat right on chrome. Would you use brass on chrome or a zinc/silver piece? If this was the method I wonder why the Bee Hive fixture hole opening dimension is large enough to carry a tapered screw head instead of just a hole large enough for the shaft of an eye? It is this screw or eye that affixes the globe hdwr. to the pole. I guess we over do ourselfs with some details. Do the judges get into this point at meets?

Thanks again Brian and Bill. Now I have two holes to fill and varnish next time I have those cans open
Regards,
Charles Wilson
"The fender guy" in Idaho.

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Brian Robinson
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Post by Brian Robinson » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:51 pm

Yes, brass is correct, the Zinc ones don't like to be opened and closed as much.

Your right, the hole in the fixture is a bit larger that a screw eye, but not much. The screw eye here kills two birds with one stone, holding the fixture and the ensign in place.
-Brian
1923 Hackercraft 23' Dolphin #03
1938 Gar Wood 22' Streamliner #6256 Empress
1952 Chris~Craft 19' Racing Runabout #363 Thunderstruck
Robinson Restoration, LLC (760) 468-1009

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drrot
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Post by drrot » Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:51 pm

What is the factory eye for then?


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Brian Robinson
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Post by Brian Robinson » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:10 pm

Jim,

I have never seen an original C-C fixture with the eye brazed on like that. Are you sure it is original C-C? As you know, many, many other companies used that same basic fixture/globe.

All of the NOS ones we have bought from you in the past never had an eye!


Image

Image

More later...got to go to dinner
-Brian
1923 Hackercraft 23' Dolphin #03
1938 Gar Wood 22' Streamliner #6256 Empress
1952 Chris~Craft 19' Racing Runabout #363 Thunderstruck
Robinson Restoration, LLC (760) 468-1009

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drrot
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Post by drrot » Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:54 am

All the original poles I have here have the brazed eyelet. They are in the photo below.
The sockets I sell are not NOS. They are brand new. I make them. The three poles in the upper photos are new. The eyelet is complicated to attach and I haven't figured it out.
Image

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Bill Basler
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Post by Bill Basler » Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:49 am

Brian, and all, the original beehive bases for my 1942 barrelback and Gar Wood both have brazed eyelets as well. They are nicely brazed into the fixture then chromed right along with the rest of the base.

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Bill Basler
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Post by Bill Basler » Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:12 am

I should add that I cannot guarantee that my base is original. I do know that it is a period correct KS, but, of course I have no way of telling whether it is original to the boat. Ironically, my Gar Wood also has an identical globe base with a brazed in eyelet.

According to the Chris-Craft Matls Specification for a 17' Pre War Deluxe:
Stern Light Assembly
#918 KS 30" (pole) 1 required at $2.00 (THis is less than Jim Staib's Price).
Lamp Doub. C 6V -3 C.P. 1 required

Stern Pole & Light
Ensign 16" x 24" 1 required
Screw Eyes Br/ 1/4" 2 required

I have never relly pondered this before now. I am now wondering if the eyelet is brazed on, then how can the ensign attach without split rings, hog rings, etc. I do know that I have seen CC documentation/photos showing the ensigns attaching directly to the eyelets, as Brian notes. So, it begs the question, as Jim says, what is the brazed on eyelet used for? Or are these correct with the brazed eyelet?
Bill Basler

Charles Wilson
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flag eyelets

Post by Charles Wilson » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:25 pm

For those with brazed on eyelets, what then attaches the fixture to the pole, is there another hole for a set screw? Glue?

Another question- Did C-C send our boats out with Ensigns always or American flags. And are we flying period correct star counts. My cotton Ensign has 13 stars, I assume for the 13 Colonies which then, never changed star count? Dad always remarked when he saw yahoos flying American flags as extremely goshe, then asked for another beer.

Snowing in Northern Idaho on one of the most beautiful and largest lakes in the West, Lake Pend O'reille, home to the largest USN basic training center during WWII and still a sub/acoustic research center. If you have seen Lake Coeur d'Alene south of us and liked it, you ain't seen notten.

Happy New Year

Charles Wilson, bumpers out
"The fender guy" in Idaho.

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Brian Robinson
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Post by Brian Robinson » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:56 pm

Charles, yes there are usually two holes, one for a set screw.

I guess I stand corrected on the brazed eyelets. I don't know how the flag was treated on these.

The more you know, the more you don't know.
-Brian
1923 Hackercraft 23' Dolphin #03
1938 Gar Wood 22' Streamliner #6256 Empress
1952 Chris~Craft 19' Racing Runabout #363 Thunderstruck
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Post by Bill Basler » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:11 pm

I just talked briefly with Brian on this issue. I would love to hear any comments from others as well. The bottom line seems to be that we just don't have a definitive answer on the issue of the "brazed" vs. "non-brazed" top eyelet. There are certainly original globe bases of both types.

It seems that on a number of the older 20s vintage boats, it was not uncommon to see an ensign affixed to the top "brazed in eyelet" with a short piece of cord. According to Brian, most of the globe bases that he has seen from the 40s are the type that have just a hole, though which screws a brass screw eye. I have seen these as well, and this type seems to support the factory method of spreading the eye open a bit, inserting the ensign grommet, then pinching it closed. The Materials Specification for a pre war 17 Deluxe, concurs, as it calls for two brass 1/4" screw eyes.

However, the two globe bases that I have are both have brazed in eyelets. Then, I recalled, I had a photo of a collection of stern pole globe bases belonging to member Jack Bunda. I cannot say for sure, but in looking at the globe bases, one of which is a beehive style, the other a later design, they both seem to have their eyelets in place, and seem to be soldered in place.

How to call this one? I don't know. It's a toss up. If you are affixing your ensign to a soldered in place eyelet, I would assume you would use a small hog ring or similar. These have been around since day one, and Chris-Craft used them elsewhere in early boats.

I don't think split rings were around then, and Skipper Clips came later. http://www.discountmarinesupplies.com/J ... Clips.html

I don't know if you would be dinged for a soldered eyelet vs a non-soldered eyelet. But I am pretty sure you would get dinged for a skipper clip, circa 195X on a pre war boat.

Ahhh, the minutia. Gotta love it.
Last edited by Bill Basler on Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by drrot » Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:11 pm

All the original poles I have have the soldered eyelet. The new poles I have previously made had 2 holes in the base pipe. It was only recently I found out you needed a soldering iron to attach the eyelet to the tube. I make the fixtures and destroyed many trying to solder the eyelet on with a torch. These are originals.
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Post by bjornbakken » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:33 pm

..............and all I wanted know; the length of a flag pole..... Great discussion.

Happy new boating year to all!

Bjorn B.
1940 17' Chris Craft Deluxe
1958 Riva Florida No. 319
Lined up:
1955 Riva Ariston
1961 Riva Super Florida
1960 Riva Florida

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Post by greshamj » Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:14 pm

On the coat tails of this discussion, could someone tell me the correct stern light and pole height for a 16' Double Cockpit Forward, 1936?

Hard to tell from the the C.C. Essential Guide, but it doesn't look like a globe type.

Thanks,

John
* 16' Gar Wood Utility
* 16' Chris Craft 511 Double Cockpit Forward (project)

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Stern Pole for 1941 Cruiser (40' Challenger)

Post by Flatd7 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:34 pm

My stern pole found it's way into the Atlantic on our journey south last Fall. I'm not sure if mine was original or not. It did not have a Beehive or Stern Light. It was approximately 36" and Mahogany.

What would the period correct pole length be on a 40" Cruiser? Would it have had a Beehive dome on it? I've seen the catalogs and it doesn't appear to have been wired, but a lot has transpired in 70 years. Any recommendations for a supplier?

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Don Ayers
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Post by Don Ayers » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:46 pm

What is your exact model and year again??
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Post by Flatd7 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:15 pm

1941 Challenger -40'

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Post by 57 chris » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:04 pm

I want to broach a subject that has not yet been discussed here. When it comes to navigation rules, the light has to be above any other obstruction such as the convertible top or at least the windshield frame.
Let's make it safe as well as original!

Craig
1957 18' SeaSkiff #SK 18675 "Knot Sure!"
1958 18' SeaSkiff #SK18722 "Wreckreation"

Past projects: 1972 19' Lancer with 307 Volvo drive-Great Blue, 1968 23' Lancer Offshore with 283 Volvo drive-Narwahl
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Post by Al Benton » Fri Jun 17, 2011 8:09 pm

Craig, even a 1941 cruiser would have an anchor light above the cabin roof. On this one it's on the mast. The stern pole wouldn't have a light, it's just a wood flag pole, maybe 40 or so inches long.

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Post by 57 chris » Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:21 am

I stand corrected. Thanks Al.

Craig
1957 18' SeaSkiff #SK 18675 "Knot Sure!"
1958 18' SeaSkiff #SK18722 "Wreckreation"

Past projects: 1972 19' Lancer with 307 Volvo drive-Great Blue, 1968 23' Lancer Offshore with 283 Volvo drive-Narwahl
1988 FourWinns 245 Vista - Blue Ayes.

It's good to have wood!

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Reviving this Pre-War Stern Flag Pole Thread ...

Post by North Woody » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:20 am

I’m trying to use search as my friend on this question, but I came up empty and this seemed the best starting place for my specific question: The stern flag pole on my 1936 19’ Runabout is missing the single “set screw” at the bottom of the pole that slides into the base. I understand that the correct screw is a brass #4 by 3/8” round head, which I picked up at my local Ace hardware store for the princely sum of 29 cents (sadly, they only had the SS, not the brass). However, when I screwed it in, I cannot get the flag pole to seat into the base. It fits nice and snug without the screw, but it looks like the width of the screw head is just slightly impeding the pole from sliding down into the base. Have I got the correct screw and should I just use a little more force to push it in, or have I got the wrong screw?

Here’s a pic of the base of the pole without the set screw:
0569D994-0299-4C27-89D1-4A5E0664A67E.jpeg
Thanks again for all the awesome sharing of the deep knowledge in this community to get me going on this one :)
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1936 Chris Craft 19’ Runabout “Lake Girl”
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Re: 1940 Deluxe stern pole length.

Post by maritimeclassics » Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:13 am

Like you said brass would have been correct. What we have to do is alter the screw a bit to fit sometimes. First, orientation is important so when your pole slides in and turns your ensign is pointing aft. The other thing you may have to do is file the top of the screw a bit so it fits in the bottom of the slot so it can turn at the bottom of the stern pole base. I have in rare cases had to sand the face of the screw a bit for it to go into the base itself. Hopefully you bought more then one screw because it may be a trial and error situation to get it to fit right.
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Re: 1940 Deluxe stern pole length.

Post by North Woody » Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:34 am

Yup, that makes a lot of sense. It is so close to fitting in that I kind of figured I may have to file it down a bit to get it to slide in easily. We're not back up until July 4th weekend so I'll pick up a few of the (correct) brass screws this week and a nice file to get this all sorted out that week. Thanks for the help on this, and I'll post up a few pics when I get this done :)
1936 Chris Craft 19’ Runabout “Lake Girl”
https://chris-craft.org/boats/49122/

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North Woody
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Re: 1940 Deluxe stern pole length.

Post by North Woody » Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:06 pm

OK, this weekend yielded both good news and bad news on this ....

First, the GOOD News: The #4 x 3/8” round head brass screw is 100% the right screw for the job, and I was able to grab a a pack of 6 at Home Depot. While the screw didn’t seat perfectly all the way in (I suspected that the wood was a likely stripped), with the screw in place with a little bit of coaxing I was able to slide the stern pole into the base and turn it to lock it in. Hooray, problem solved in time for a cocktail cruise on the 4th of July with the stern flag in place :)
9DC54552-782E-4D88-B006-927A6B221D4E.jpeg
Now the BAD News: When I went to pull the flag out to cover her up when we left this afternoon, I was unable to get the flag pole back out.... The pole twisted around OK, but the set screw was loose and I couldn’t get it to slide back up the channel. I was not able to screw the set screw in super tight due to a suspected stripped hole, and this confirmed it. In the end, I was able to remove the flat screw (which attaches the metal sleeve to the pole) and pull the flag pole out, unfortunately leaving the metal sleeve and the set screw still in the base. I am confident that I can find a way to get that out, but my concern is how to best repair the bottom of the flag pole. I assume this will be pretty straightforward, but I need to repair the bottom hole (and probably the top hole as well) to address the stripped hole to get the metal sleeve more strongly attached to the wood pole. Here is a pic of what I have:
19C86A9E-5CEB-49C4-BA62-0C2B0CBAEAF3.jpeg
Any suggestions for the best and most permanent fix for this? I’ve brought the stern pole home from the lake so I can find a solution for this hopefully over the next 3 weeks before we head back up, so any help would be appreciated!
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1936 Chris Craft 19’ Runabout “Lake Girl”
https://chris-craft.org/boats/49122/

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