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Gaps On The Bottom

If it doesn't pertain to metal, wood, wire or fabric—but it is about vintage Chris-Crafts, ask your question or give your advice here.

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Al Benton
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Post by Al Benton » Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:43 pm

Jeff,

I'm not sure but an enhanced bottom could mean anything that's different from an original (traditional) bottom. It might cover the full gamut from rebedding and fastening existing wood, rebedding, tightening, replacing some wood to the ultimate enhanced 5200 method.

One bottom treatment that someone may call an enhanced bottom is where planks are removed, new bedding (could be 5200 I suppose) applied, most of the old planks re-installed, tightening the the gaps as you go and cutting one new plank wide enough to make up for all the gaps before you started.

This method seems to present questions about allowing space for old wood to swell though. It may be one step worst than putting caulk in the gaps that cause damage.

Al

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bottoms

Post by steve bunda » Sun Dec 27, 2009 6:06 pm

Enhanced Traditional Bottom, In our shop this type of bottom is exactly like the orignal bottom except for the treatment of the canvas ,a diffrent compound is used. We allways replace the bottom planks with new wood because of a few reasons,the old planks are dried out, planks are oil soaked and cracked, it takes the same labor to install new planks, and may last another 50 years. Any way back to the ETB some customers donot like the idea of glueing the inner planking to the outer planking and would prefer a bottom as it left the factory.On a pre war CC we would install the mahogany inner planking on angle,place a treated canvas, use special bedding compound and then install the new outer planking ,everything as orignal pattern including the inner round head screws.CPES can be a part of the proccess to help stabilize and protect the wood.steve

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Post by THE RAZZ » Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:17 pm

It all depends on the meaning of "enhanced" I suppose.
A 5200 bottom is enhanced.
A CPES treated bottom is enhanced.
A glass bottom is enhanced.
etc, etc, etc

How did the seller/surveyor define enhanced?
Jerry
1942 17' barrelback 71923
1987 21' CC Stinger

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Post by bparker » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:49 pm

Stovebolt, lots of gab about products and new bottoms and such. Just soak it up and see if the gaps close. Pull the removable floor boards, put a hose in it, and watch it closely. You'll blow your hull if you forget the hose is running.
I have a trailered 18' utility with an original bottom in decent shape. When I got it (only a year ago), the boat was dry and all gaps were 1/8" or greater in width, but they all tightened up. When I first soaked it, the water ran out just as fast as it went in. Every few hours I'd do it again. Eventually the leaking slowed,(on day two or three) and a week later it would hold water for several hours.
Then the boat was put in the water for a test run. It leaked plenty, but the bilge pump kept up with it. The next time it was in the water, it was in for a whole week and by the second day the leak rate slowed to a point where I did not have to worry about it.
Make sure your bilge pump is adequate, and forget about the new bottom until you see how yours does.

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sprinkle v. flooding

Post by THE RAZZ » Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:42 pm

Put a sprinkler(s) under the boat when on the trailer? Let it run until the bottom tightens up.

Water weighs 8lbs per gallon. Imagine 20 gallons (160lbs) of load on the planking's screws (nails). Yikes.
Jerry
1942 17' barrelback 71923
1987 21' CC Stinger

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Post by NSJA » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:39 pm

If you go the route of using the bottom as is, make sure that the battery is good. Obviously, the bilge pump is only as good as the battery!

NSJA

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Post by mcisaac inc » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:53 pm

:D What ever happened to the beer tally that steve requested? After all, it is a holiday week..little slick seam ,little water , little beer............happy new year to all.........markmcisaacinc.com

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Stovebolt
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Post by Stovebolt » Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:40 pm

Thanks so much to EVERYONE that contributed to my question! It's a nice change to ask a question, and the answers either answer, or are closly related to the original questions! In the custom car world, you as a question, and the first response will be in direct relation to the question, and then every other one after that will be about getting rid of the wheels or change the paint when you asked about alternators. So thanks folks!

As for the bottom, man, I feel alot better. I have found out that the bottom is a "No Wet" bottom. Does that sound right. It was restored a few years ago, but rarely used. So I will get the bottom soaking and see how we progress. I think I will wait till the weather is a little warmer though. And I can keep it outside overnight without the thing freezing. That would UBER suck.
1961 Chris Craft 17' Ski Boat
1973 15.6' Hourston Glasscraft

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steve bunda
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boat soaking

Post by steve bunda » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:52 am

When soaking a wood boat from the inside a little common sense will be prudent. Since the boat is on the trailer with a tongue jack one would soak one area of the hull at a time. Lift the bow and soak the stern, lower the bow and soak the bow. You will not fill the complete boat over the chines,the final soaking is in the water tied to a pier. In wisconsin we also soak the boats on our shore stations, launch the boat , drive like H to the boat lift and secure. As far as damaging the bottom fasteners,I belive at this point in the boats life time, the damage is all ready done. How many times have you driven the boat with lots of water in it? That stress is a whole lot more than a few lbs of static pessure of water on a boat trailer.One other way to humidify the hull, put a humidifier in the boat and cover it in your garage then water the garage floor. steve

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Post by WoodenRookie » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:28 pm

I want to thank everyone whom chimed in on this thread. Based on this thread I will not be following past recommendations and will be passing on the barrier coats on my traditional bottom. I now plan to CPES the bottom, try to add some moisture to allow swelling and then after a period go ahead and paint with the copper/bronze pettit #1959. If she swells up tight and I can get a few years out of the original bottom, I'm a happy boater. Based on the results and of how I use her, then I can add funds to the 5200 cookie jar.

Wishing you all Happy & Safe boating in 2010!!

Bill
1959 18' Continental "Knot Yet"
2013 Cobalt 200WSS
1977 Lakescraft Pontoon

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Post by mcisaac inc » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:09 pm

:D This is an original document shipped with Chris Crafts from the Cadillac plant. It was stapled to the inside of a 1951 U22 motor box. you might find number 12 interesting..maybe Chris Craft bottoms were not as tight as we think........markmcisaacinc.com
Image

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Post by THE RAZZ » Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:05 am

Nice work. This is what it's all about- original manufacturer's documents. What a site.

Jerry
1942 17' barrelback 71923
1987 21' CC Stinger

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Stovebolt
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Post by Stovebolt » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:29 pm

mcisaac inc wrote: Image

I agree!! Thats the s**t right there!!! Original documents! 48 hours to soak? Man, I wish I lived on a lake :D

1961 Chris Craft 17' Ski Boat
1973 15.6' Hourston Glasscraft

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Post by farupp » Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:22 am

"48 Hours before leaving it in the water unattended." A comfortable chair, battery powered TV, case of beer and a few pizzas should do.

Happy New Year!
Frank Rupp
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Bill Basler
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Post by Bill Basler » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:03 pm

Mark, maybe this was true for just Cadillac boats? Just kidding. Sorry.
Last edited by Bill Basler on Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bill Basler

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Post by rdapron » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:35 pm

The owner of this 1958 Capri wanted the original document left on his boat so the document was laminated and screwed (instead of nailed) to the inside of the engine hatch – just like the factory did back in the day. I think it is a nice touch.
rob

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Post by mcisaac inc » Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:00 pm

:D that is nice...thought i had the only survivor....glad their are more..I suppose many of the dealers took them off before letting the boat go, but some got left on by accident............markm

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Don Danenberg
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Post by Don Danenberg » Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:03 am

That card did come from the Cadillac Plant, they were not on the water and so the dealer was required to watertest the boat, note the title at the top.

A videotape, available from the Water Wonderland chapter, ACBS,and CCABC, shows a question and answer session with Chris Smith. He watertested boats at the Algonac plant in the 30's and 40's as a teenager.
One question was "how long did you soak the boats before watertesting"?
His answer was; "Never, if a leak was found, somebody drilled a hole in the wrong place. This would be repaired before going on to shipping".

As to answering the "Enhanced Traditional Construction" question;
This was a phrase I used in a March-April, 1997, Classic Boating magazine article (originally titled 'Bottoms Up') where I tried to describe the use of CPES and 3M-5200 for bottom construction in Antique and Classic Runabouts.

Since this article addresses many questions posed on this thread, I will post it here.



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Don Danenberg
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Post by Don Danenberg » Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:36 am

Before caulking bottom plank gaps, please read this 1931, Gar Wood factory to dealer memo.

Chris-Craft was too smart to discuss possible failure modes, they just warned that if the bottom planking was allowed to become saturated, the excess weight would prevent you from reaching advertised speeds.

Image

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Post by mcisaac inc » Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:57 am

So the Algonac plant soaked the boats prior to delivery,and did all eleven other steps as well.According to Forrest Kanipe, Chris Craft had a test building on Lake Cadillac................m

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Gaps on the bottom

Post by Wilson Wright » Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:07 am

Don't lament the gaps..It's New Year's Day Time to celebrate the thought of all the ole boats we might buy and fix in the coming year...Go celebrate for a while.
HAPPY NEW YEAR !
Wilson Wright
Executive Director Emeritus
Chris-Craft Antique Boat Club

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Stovebolt
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Post by Stovebolt » Sun May 16, 2010 1:27 pm

*UPDATE*

So after a week of "watering" the underneath of my boat with a sprinkler, I decided to bite the bullet and yesterday, I took her to a local lake with a buddy of mine, to see what would happen. I backed er in and my buddy says, "we have water". Which I expected. So I left it in the water over the trailer for a bit, mindful of how many other people were waiting to use the launch. So the pressure was on. After about 15 mins, the bildge came on, so I figured that was a good time to drag er out. I noticed while it was in the water that water was coming in through the board just below the chine. (I hope I have my terminology right). Anyway, I dragged er out and brought her home.

When I got home, I took the seats out and got the hose, and started to fill er up. I got enough water into the bottom, that the bolts holding the prop shaft holder? (I love being a newbie), were covered. I dropped the front end so that water would go up front. The bildge came on, so I took out the hose, leveled her the best could, and went in for the night.


This morning, I woke up, had some coffee, and went out to see if there has been any change to the dripping. And it doesn't look like it. But reading previous posts, I see it could take a few days to seal up. Is it common for Chris Crafts to leak a little bit by nature?


Anyway, if anyone sees any fault with what I'm doing, please let me know. This is my first experience with wood bottoms.


Thanks guys!
1961 Chris Craft 17' Ski Boat
1973 15.6' Hourston Glasscraft

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JimF
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Post by JimF » Mon May 17, 2010 7:49 am

If there was still enough water in the boat to be dripping in the morning, then you are in pretty good shape. It must be swelling up some. Keep it wet.

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Post by campjer » Mon May 17, 2010 9:28 am

My Connie took a week to swell up. It was a long nerving week - holding my breath that at some point the bilge would stop kicking in. From initial put in, I believe my front bilge started every 3 or 4 minutes and ran for 30-40 seconds. After a week went by, the same bilge fired up probably once every 45 minutes for 7 or 8 seconds... imho - that was swelled enough for me.
Cheers,
Jeremy Campbell

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'61 32' Connie
'61 45' Connie (RIP)
'50 42' DCFB

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Post by Stovebolt » Mon May 17, 2010 1:09 pm

Ok, thats some good news! Sounds like I am on the right path. Image
1961 Chris Craft 17' Ski Boat
1973 15.6' Hourston Glasscraft

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