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Colored Gelcoat

Repair, or reconstruction. Gelocat or structural fiberglass. If it's hull related, you'll find it here

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Herman
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Colored Gelcoat

Post by Herman » Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:47 pm

I am thinking of using a product from Jamestown Distributors. The MSDS lists it as AE-353-NUU produced by Interplastic Corp. It is a pre-colored Gelcoat. Has anyone used this product? If so, will it be a good product to apply to my 1966 Sea Skiff? I do not want to use paint.

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Herman Vess
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57 chris
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Post by 57 chris » Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:34 am

Hi Herman,

If your boat is 'glass, then you could definately shoot a new coat of 'gel over the existing hull but this is not something the average painter can do sucessfully. This is a process that needs to be done by a pro if you want professional results.
I had a 19' Lancer one time that I was going to have "peeled" and re-gelcoated but this was a very costly proposition and I just couldn't justify the expense so I painted it with a 2-part epoxy and it came out like new. You couldn't tell that it wasn't gelcoat until you got close enough to touch it.
Hope this helps.

Craig
1957 18' SeaSkiff #SK 18675 "Knot Sure!"
1958 18' SeaSkiff #SK18722 "Wreckreation"

Past projects: 1972 19' Lancer with 307 Volvo drive-Great Blue, 1968 23' Lancer Offshore with 283 Volvo drive-Narwahl
1988 FourWinns 245 Vista - Blue Ayes.

It's good to have wood!

Herman
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Post by Herman » Sun Aug 31, 2008 2:37 am

Hi Craig;
Thanks for the info. The boat is glass and I don't want to spend the cost of a professional.To me restoration of a boat is for me to do to make it worth the effort. The bottom 1/3 of the boat is the area that needs help. The top part has some nicks but still shines. One person told me to stay away from paint what ever I do. I noticed some rough glass area on the bottom as though someone at sometime patched it and did not take the time to properly sand it down. They put on a coat of brown paint and most of that has worn off. I did not get a lot of responce as you can tell but I chased down the manufacture of the colored gel coat and they advise it is a lot of sanding and it won't be mold perfect but stand behind the product. I have the time ,so I think I am going to give it a try, I guess I could always paint over it. I wanted the premixed color as I don't have a eye for color matching on my own and I can not find out the orginal coler code. I will let you know how it works. Thanks for the advise.

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Herman Vess
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57 chris
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Post by 57 chris » Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:39 am

Good luck with your project Herman, They were correct telling you that it won't be mold perfect even if sprayed but it can come out very good if you've got a steady hand. I definately would not recommend attempting to brush this product, for any kind of good results you're going to have to spray it. I'm curious about the person that advised against paint though, two part epoxy over properly sanded fiberglass comes out absolutely beautiful, I know this from experience. You also might want to look back through the archives for posts regarding this very subject.

Craig
1957 18' SeaSkiff #SK 18675 "Knot Sure!"
1958 18' SeaSkiff #SK18722 "Wreckreation"

Past projects: 1972 19' Lancer with 307 Volvo drive-Great Blue, 1968 23' Lancer Offshore with 283 Volvo drive-Narwahl
1988 FourWinns 245 Vista - Blue Ayes.

It's good to have wood!

Herman
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Gel Coat/ Paint

Post by Herman » Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:35 pm

I read it in a post from Bill Basler to TGBCRAZY on his reasearch of re-gelcoat. My original thought was 2 part expoxy. Bill advised that automotive paints just do not hold up to water. Did you use a special 2 part expoxy? As best as I can find out the original boat was green and white. I have seen some pictures of the boat with the brown bottom. I am still not sure which way to go. That was the reason for my post.
I think I would come out better with expoxy but was wanting to keep it as close to original as possible. The person I talked to on the colored gel coat advised 3-4 coats and once you start you keep spraying in layers so each coat bonds to the last coat. Guess I need to do some more homework.Thanks for the additional comments and thoughts. Got the trailer repaired today and will start on the boat next week-end.

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Herman Vess
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Post by 57 chris » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:15 am

Herman,
I can't speak from experience about the longevity of automotive products in marine environments such as Imron which is an automotive 2-part but I know people that have used it on their boats with very good results. There is however Awlgrip which is a marine rated 2-part that was developed and produced primarily for the marine environment. This product is used by large boat builders on all sorts of substrates (except wood) for some of the harshest environments with outstanding results.
Oh, about the gelcoat; that is definately something you will have to "build up" in layers to get the thickness you need without it running off. If you do decide to go this route, watch your mix ratio very closely. A little too much catalyst and the gelcoat will be brittle. A little too little and it won't cure thoroughly or may not harden at all.

Regards,

Craig
1957 18' SeaSkiff #SK 18675 "Knot Sure!"
1958 18' SeaSkiff #SK18722 "Wreckreation"

Past projects: 1972 19' Lancer with 307 Volvo drive-Great Blue, 1968 23' Lancer Offshore with 283 Volvo drive-Narwahl
1988 FourWinns 245 Vista - Blue Ayes.

It's good to have wood!

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Bill Basler
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Post by Bill Basler » Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:15 am

True and false relative to using automotive base coat/clear coats or two part polyurethanes such as Imron for marine use. They can be used successfully with proper prep and primers. The deciding factor is how long the boat will be kept in the water. If the boat is to be in the water for extended periods...in excess of a week or two, you will eventually end up with blistering. If the boat will see action only to be loaded onto a a trailer, you should be fine. Awlgrip is one specialty marine product that is formulated for use below the waterline. It is the product of choice of many of the megayacht builders, because of its durability. Even Awlgrip is pretty finicky as to basecoat preparation. They make special fairing primers and trowelable fillers that are compatible with the topcoat.

Keep in mind, blisters, even in fiberglass hulls, show up after extended, seasonal stays in water, followed by long term storage. The moisture will slowly, over time, make its way under the topcoats, creating the blisters. It may not happen in the fist year of use, but I have had many friends (auto body people) who tried Imron, and base coat/clear coats products, only to look at a repaint after about five years of use.
Bill Basler

Herman
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Gel Coat/ Paint

Post by Herman » Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:24 pm

Thanks Bill for chiming in on the subject. When I read your post I quit looking at automotive paints and started looking at the gel coats. Thus my question had anybody used the pre mixed colored gel coat from Jamestown? I don't have a color eye so I did not want a kit where I had to mix the color to get close. Craig being the only one to respond to my post advised against the gel coat and to the Expoxy which was my original thought until I read your post. I also read in another post that Alwgrip was a night mare to work with and that most boat dealers would not use it. I have some spots to repair on the top section and in working on the trailer this past week-end I found a patch on the bottom side that someone did in a poor manner as you can still see the fiberglass cloth.I am not sure which way to go yet but have decided to make my patches, and sand down the entire boat with 220 wet/dry sandpaper. I talked by e-mail to the factory on the gelcoat and they feel it is the way to go and that I should have only minor problems if the hull is properly prepped. It is not going to be original finish and I understand that I am not going to get an original mold finish on a 42 year old boat.I thank you both for your input into my question. You both have made me stop and think before I mess up what I have. I have wanted a Chris Craft since I was 16 years old and now that I have one I don't want to mess it up. Although it will not be totally original inside with a new teak floor and green and white roll and plete seats the outside needs to be original and that is what I am trying to accomplish. It must be done by me and not some professional outfit. To me the work on My Christy Too must be accomplished by me to make it mine. If I wanted to spend a lot of bucks I would simple go to the dealer and purchase a new boat.I have a jewel in the rough as I do not find any other 1966 18 foot Sea Skiffs in the club and have not found any others for sale. Out of 80 boats made in 1966 I have hull number 004. I think Paul has # 36 but his is a 20 foot boat of the same color. I hope some day to pull up along side his boat and we can meet on the river.

If You guys think of anything else let me know I thank you for helping me to stop and think about it.

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Herman Vess
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Paul P
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Post by Paul P » Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:25 am

All Hatteras yachts are painted. There should be no concern about the durability of the two part Awlgrip or other polyurethane marine products that can be applied and look "mold perfect" at MUCH less cost than a gelcoat. In the end the paint will most likely look better than the gelcoat. Just my two cents worth.

We have a lot of guys doing this sort of thing with their fiberglass Commanders. VERY FEW have elected to go the gelcoat route. Sure, it can be done, and if given hundreds of hours of sanding it can be done well. As one of my friends recently said, "it would be a great opportunity to spend twenty thousand dollars on a six thousand dollar boat".

Even if you donate the sanding time, paint is still the way to go, in my view. I don't want to throw cold water on the gelcoat idea, I am just giving an opinion to assist.

Good luck, send photos!

Paul
1956 17' CC Sportsman, 300-hp
1957 17' CC Sportsman, 95-hp
1966 20' CC fiberglass Sea Skiff, 210-hp+
1973 23' CC Lancer inboard project, 427/375-hp.
1966 38' CC Commander Express, 427/300-hp(2)

So many boats.........so little time.....but what a way to go!!

Wood Commander
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Post by Wood Commander » Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:01 pm

I have a buddy that painted the hull sides of his 36' Trojan Flybidge Cruiser with 2- part automotive paint, it might have been PPG Concept or something like that.
He had glued in wood strips between the planks and coated the entire hull sides (not the bottom) with WEST SYSTEM epoxy. He faired the hull and cut in fake plank seams as well as refastening and plugging the screw holes, primed it with automotive primer and then shot the PPG automotive paint. It spends the entire spring/summer/fall season in Lake Erie. It was done one side of the boat at a time with the second side finished in 1998. It looks absolutely fabulous to this day and is extremely durable. My buddy chuckles at everybody else in the marina each spring as he waxes his WOOD boat while the other woody owners are covered in paint sanding dust and paint smears. So automotive paint definately can be used successfully under the right conditions.

As for gel coating, I guess it might be the best way under professional, controlled conditions in a total and show piece restoration, but for my money, I'd go paint, probably Awl Grip. But i wouldn't be afraid of auto paint under the right conditions.
Awl Grip had a video at one time showing their technique for brushing their paint on. I've seen a boat that was brushed with Awl Grip and it is gorgeous. After all, if you were redoing a wood runabout hull, you'd most likely be brushing varnish on anyway and that looks great!
Bret

1953 35' Commander "Adonis III"

1970 23' lancer project

Herman
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1966 18' Sea Skiff

Post by Herman » Sat Sep 13, 2008 3:35 pm

All the advise I have recieved has helped me so much to determine the route to take on exterior restoration of the hull. I thank each of you so much.

I am going to how ever ask your opinions one more time on my selected means and methods. Please advise if you think this will work.

Complete sanding with 220 grit wet/ dry sand paper to remove existing paint and discover any needed repair areas.
Repair any damage with fiberglass repair kit.
2 coats of Blue Water Bottom Protect High Build Epoxy Sealer.
2-3 coats of Blue Water Uraglow 2 part marine Topside Urethane enamel.
Light snadinfg with 220 wet sandpaper and then final buff and polish.

The primer and 2 part paint will cover not only the green bottom but I will conduct the same process on the white top.

When weather clears I will post some as is pictures of the boat.
Herman Vess

Wood Commander
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Post by Wood Commander » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:08 pm

It sounds like you have a pretty decent plan there for your hull restoration, but I have a few methods that I like to use to acomplish these tasks.

WEST SYSTEM or some of the other brands such as MAS or Sytem 3 (I think I got that name right) are steps above your ordinary fiberglass repair kit.

The boats, and the cheaper fiberglass resins and kits, are made of polyester resins. WEST and some of the others that I mentioned are epoxys and are much more waterproof, stronger and better for any kind of repair where fiberglass work is appropriate. Of course they are more expensive so you are going to pay for that extra quality.

I think WEST is easier to work with and has many more retail sources and instructional materials for self help as well as having a large selection of different add- in products and materials for accomplishing different tasks.

Both polyester resins and epoxys can be used with or without fiberglass matting and additives. But WEST is a much more professional and involved way of doing things. That doesn't mean that it is actually harder to use.
If you have several areas of your hull that need attention, the higher cost of getting set up with WEST materials will probably be offset compared to if you would need more than one polyester kit to complete your job.

Once again, getting toward being more professional and involved, I like to use a Double Action (DA) disc air sander with stick- on sanding paper discs. Unlike a regualr disc grinder or sander, a DA will not grind out scallops. It also is good for small to moderate curvatures in the working surfaces. You can start out with aggressive sanding paper grits and move on down to the finer stuff. Due to the action of the sander, heavy aggressive grits will not scratch the fiberglass or wood nearly as much as a square pad sander will (within reason), but will fair out your repair material quicker. A DA and knowing how to use it is a godsend when repairing or even sanding a fiberglass hull.

I get my DA's from Harbor Freight, as much as I hate to support offshore junk peddlers. But I have had very good luck with their 6" DA palm sander.
This sytem does require a fairly stout 220 Volt air compressor too, and good respirators and breathing air is important too no matter how you are going to be sanding the boat.
So all of this money investment may not be for everyone. But it is still much less expensive than having a professional work on your boat. And you will have the equipment for later projects too. And one boat often leads to another!
Bret

1953 35' Commander "Adonis III"

1970 23' lancer project

Herman
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1966 18' Sea Skiff

Post by Herman » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:25 pm

Thanks for the information I will locate the products you recomend. It will make my repair a better job and that was the reason for asking. I do have a palm sander, both electric and air of which I also got at Harbor Freight, at least the air unit. The repairs to the bottom of the hull are small and few. The hull is in fair shape for 42 years old. I do have a major repair on the top deck around the windshield. The deck is cracked all the way through. I plan to cut out enough to make a solid patch and not just try to seam back the crack. I also have to patch two areas where someone attached wood & plastic brackets for a down rig stripper fishing rig. Thanks again for the additional information. I will post the progress.I think this boat will turn heads when complete.

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Herman Vess
Herman Vess

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