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HF-7 pink milk

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lftmx3
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 9:07 am
Location: Louisville KY

HF-7 pink milk

Post by lftmx3 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:54 pm

Last weekend we decided to take the boat out one last time before putting it away for the winter. Everything seemed normal, reverse worked fine for pulling away from trailer/dock, but when we left the no-wake zone and applied more throttle (about 10mph), the paragon would slip and whine until I quickly let off. The dipstick showed the fluid level slightly below the low mark, but more startling, it was pink and watery. We then limped back to the ramp and headed home.
I tried flushing the box last weekend using my oil-change vacuum pump, but after using a whole gallon of ATF, I still have pinkish fluid. I see the manual references a drain plug on the bottom of the unit, I couldn't find it. By sucking the fluid out of the dipstick tube, was I not getting all of it out each time?
Also- how did the water get in there?- the only thing I could think of is the heat exchanger, is that possible?
64 Super Sport 17'

jfrprops
Posts: 2027
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:41 pm
Location: Powhatan Courthouse Virginia

Re: HF-7 pink milk

Post by jfrprops » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:47 pm

Ok, the HF-7 must have a cooler I am pretty sure. That cooler is a small heat exchanger of the capsule with tubes design. That is a smaller version of the heat exchanger on the engine if you have fresh water cooling. The ATF gets pumped around in the unit and through the heat exchanger to be cooled....Likely your heat exchanger (transmission cooler) has a leak in the fluid cooling tubes and is letting the circulating cooling WATER into the unit. All that being said, and with no more specific info, I still find it sort of weird that the thing whines and slips so much? If there is a lot of water in there....yes. But the pump could be weak or bad? And yes, there is a drain plug on the bottom..but it is a square head one and usually stuck and often hard to access because it is so close to the bottom of the boat. The case is angled usually such that there is a low spot where oil sits and from whence you should be able to pump it out the top with your pump....sadly it is best done with the fluid hot and that is hard in your situation....heat gun on unit case?? Hope this longwinded post helps....ask more and more details...plus let us know outcome. John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

Greg Wallace
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Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:49 pm
Location: Indian Lake, Ohio

Re: HF-7 pink milk

Post by Greg Wallace » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:18 am

You could also bypass the cooler and idle engine, pump the old into a receptacle while drawing new in until outflow is clean. Also will pump water out cooler fittings if leaking. Has the boat had water in bilge over rev gear?
Greg Wallace 23 Custom 22166 former Chris-Craft dealer Russells Point, Oh.

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Bilge Rat
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Re: HF-7 pink milk

Post by Bilge Rat » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:42 am

Not sure but I suspect that there is a screen in the transmission on the outlet to the cooler for catching any crap that is picked up. The Velvet Drives have those. Might be interesting to see if anything was caught by the screen like friction material. Watery fluid does not offer hydraulic properties and lubrication like ATF would and there may be some internal issues from this water.
1966 Lyman Cruisette 25 foot "Serenity Now!"
1953 Chris Craft Sportsman 22 foot "Summerwind"

lftmx3
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 9:07 am
Location: Louisville KY

Re: HF-7 pink milk

Post by lftmx3 » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:24 pm

Thanks for the suggestions, I suppose this weekend I will try warming the box with a heat gun and flushing out some more. Will also take out the oil cooler and check for leaks. What worries me is there doesn't seem to be a way to check for damage/repair needs without putting back in the water... unless someone knows otherwise? I'm hoping the clutches aren't fried... removing that thing from the engine does not look like a fun job, let alone rebuilding it!
64 Super Sport 17'

jfrprops
Posts: 2027
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:41 pm
Location: Powhatan Courthouse Virginia

Re: HF-7 pink milk

Post by jfrprops » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:37 pm

Back in the day we said that Paragons had a "system" like stomachs, intestines, and kidneys....that would "pass" buckshot...whereas Borg Warner/ Velvet Drives would not pass number 9 shot....meaning that paragons were really tough and hard to kill. I just re read you symptoms are you confident you have a good damper plate? If that sucker spits her springs or slips a disc...it can make strange sounds accompanied by strange actions??? I swear I would suspect the damper plate.
John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

lftmx3
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 9:07 am
Location: Louisville KY

Re: HF-7 pink milk

Post by lftmx3 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:15 am

Not sure about damper plate. Here is a short video I took when it happened. https://youtu.be/pwhWECeoOu0
https://youtu.be/T-87Uipmhg4
64 Super Sport 17'

jfrprops
Posts: 2027
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:41 pm
Location: Powhatan Courthouse Virginia

Re: HF-7 pink milk

Post by jfrprops » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:40 am

that vid does not tell me much....and my suggestion of damper plate is just covering all possible bases. Clearly, milky oil is the sign of trouble. Remind us all what boat that is exactly and what engine? Will she still move through the water and at what speed and duration. There are not many guys left that know how to work on those units....but thankfully most of them don't need much to keep going. Give us all the diagnostic help you can....any detail...no matter how small...about the event....has it happened in any way before...other odd behavior....what will it do now.....sound in reverse....does it get up out of the hole and run well upon initial cold attempt? What specific fluid are you using? Dextron? type F....ford....? what? Have you ever had a near disaster like jamming the prop with rope or a stop dead grounding? recently? stuff like that.... John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

lftmx3
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue May 09, 2017 9:07 am
Location: Louisville KY

Re: HF-7 pink milk

Post by lftmx3 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:58 am

The boat is a 64 Super Sport/327F. As long as we kept the throttle below a certain RPM, the boat would move along at around 9-10mph(speed according to fish-finder) Anything over that and the transmission would completely disengage and squeal. Reverse worked ok for backing off trailer but we didn’t mess with much otherwise. I replaced the fluid with Dexron III. Only had the boat for two years, this was only the 3rd time I’ve used it (1+ year replacing rotten topsides in the driveway)
64 Super Sport 17'

jfrprops
Posts: 2027
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:41 pm
Location: Powhatan Courthouse Virginia

Re: HF-7 pink milk

Post by jfrprops » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:51 pm

I would like some others to comment on this...but after reading you last post as to what happens....squeal is not something a wet disc unit really does...bearing maybe but not the disc that make it go. And as to just disengaging....well...I am more pointed back to the damper plate....especially since the unit is quiet and connected at some, if slow , speed. When you speed up you put way more stress on that damper plate which is THE connector between the engine flywheel and the gear unit...if that plate has stripped its shaft connector....then I can see you having the symptoms you have. Maybe the milky fluid is leading us up the wrong creek here? Still though..."squeal" in the damper plate failure case would more usually be a rattle...bad rattle...then if it lets loose entirely...perhaps squeal??? Pull that unit off the engine a ways and inspect that plate?
John in Va.
1980 Fairchild Scout 30
19?? custom Argentine Runabout 16'
1954 Whirlwind deluxe dual ckpt 16'
1921 Old Town Charles River 17' (founding Captain, James River Batteau Festival)

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