Starting A 54 Sportsman

[Parishdc]

My sportsman won't start. Put in a new battery today, turns over well, but not getting spark. Replacing the coil tomorrow, 12 volt conversion.

Not getting any fuel and I have tried the manual pump. Can someone give me a little info on that I assume that valve handles should be in line with the line to be open.

I have searched and can't find a game plan for these old engines. Mine has a single downdraft carb and I need some direction.

Even a spot to look here on the forum will help. My search is just not working.

Thanks,
Dave

[quitchabitchin]

You are right about the valve handles, they are 1/4 turn and should line up with the pipe when open.

[Parishdc]

Thanks, I appreciate the verification. I am going to take the fuel line out today and blow it out. I will use a temp tank and see if I can pump fuel, then it' s a new coil and try again.

Goal is memorial day launch so I need a little luck.

Dave

[mfine]

You had no spark and no fuel?

When was this engine last run? What kind, safe to assume a K variant?

On the spark, sounds like you are getting a new coil, but did you check the distributor? Points, cap and rotor all look good? Also, how about the wiring? Do you see 12v across the coil with the key on?

If the boat has not run recently, fuel could take a while to fill the carb even if everything is in perfect order. Make sure the tank has fuel, valve is on and any filters are not clogged. You can then try to manually prime the lines and fill the carb bowl before attempting to start, or you can squirt starting fluid or gas into the carb to get it started until the fuel pump catches up. Be careful, you can start a nasty fire spraying highly flamable stuff near your engine and be aware that it can backfire so keep all body parts away from any carb whose flame arrestor is off.

If it starts on the starter fluid but fails to stay running after you stop spraying, you could have a bad fuel pump or a stuck float. Or the carb could be dirty or gummed up. Too many things to debug at once. So, I would suggest get the spark sorted out first, make sure the fuel valve is on and fuel can be sucked down the lines, and go from there.

[Don Ayers]

Good call matt, nothing goes without spark! That is the first place I look.

You could go old school and use a screw driver to test the zap between the plug and wire.

[Parishdc]

thanks guys. Thunderstorms shut me down for today, with new coil, got spark now.
pumped some fuel from tank through the line, then primed the bowl with the manual fuel pump.

Guess whats next......... just started taking the carb off, rain hit hard. Little disc on carb says B 175, its a K variant engine with a single down draft carb. Looks like a clean and check float time.

More to come. I thank you for affirming my fun.

Dave

[mfine]

Well, if you have spark and fuel all the way to the carb, you have a good chance of running by memorial day.

[Parishdc]

Got the carb out
Bone dry, so fuel not pumping from pump to carb. Looks like a fuel pump issue. Any tips?
Carb looks like it was rebuilt back in its last run.
I will look at fuel pump topics next.
Getting there.
Dave

[mfine]

Get a fuel pump rebuild kit with ethanol proof diaphragms. The rebuild job is relatively straight forward.

[Parishdc]

That looks like the way I am headed, or maybe an electric pump and Pertronix. That's what I did in my 48 Willys. Not pure, but very practical and starts are routine.
Thanks
Dave

[doubleboater]

Most people onthe buzz would advise against a electric pump because of fire if your engine dies your pump may continue to pump fuel to a hot engine. Look at previous posts under ENGINES im sure you will find the reasons not to put on an electric. Besides they didnt use them "back in the day". If your boat is set up properly you dont need electric pump except bildge .....

[mfine]

Count me strongly out of the "most people" camp.

Electric fuel pumps have huge advantages in functionality and safety. They have been used in marine engines for decades and are becoming universal in new inboard and stern drive installs.

For safety, you should install an oil preassure cutoff switch with the electric pump. If the engine dies, the pump will stop. The electric pump will not leak fuel into your bilge or oil the way mechanical ones often do when (not if) the diaphragm fails.

Modern fuel evaporates much quicker than fuels from the 50's. If you don't use the boat for a few days, the fuel in the carb can evaporate out. When you go to start, you will need to crank the engine over with a starter for much longer for a mechanical pump to re-fill the bowl. This adds wear to the starter which was not built to take it, and also increases wear to the engine since you are cranking without oil preassure. An electric pump will re-fill the carb almost immediately, and with the pertronix, should give you near car like starting.

The downsides are it costs a bit more upfront, and it is not original. I would personaly recomend an electric pump and oil preassure switch over a mechanical pump for a user boat where operation and safety are important and originality is not a concern. If you want to show the boat, or get on the water quickly and cheaply, rebuilding the old pump is easier and cheaper.

P.S. if you get an electric pump, make sure you get a marine low preasure pump for a carb (5-7 psi) and not a high preassure pump for fuel injectors.

[Parishdc]

My goal is usability and reliability. I have an electric pump, low volume, marine, with an oil pressure switch in my old jeep. Is itorigina? No, but it's reliable and great in off camber situations. The little flat head 4 in the jeep performs well.

I will rebuild the old pump and use it as well, just not right away. I think electric may happen this week. And if I can get the Pertronix, that will happen as well. I am OK with a resto-mod for my boat.

The question is, how long before I put the 5200 bottom on?

Dave

[Parishdc]

After cleaning the carb, cleaning the fuel pump and checking fuel lines, I had fuel to the carb. Still no spark. Worked back to the distributer and found we had current both points open and points closed. Time for new points and condenser. Went to NAPA and came home and made the change. A little choke, a little throttle, cross the fingers and hit the starter. Scared the crap out of me when it started right up. Hooked up the water bucket trick and watched her run. Man was I smiling.
Thanks everyone for the encouragement. Launch on Friday.
Dave

[mfine]

SWEET!

[Parishdc]

It was amazing to have spark and then lose it. I guess the condenser just gave up the ghost. Did not fight the crowds to launch this weekend. Changed the oil and ready to go next weekend.
Thanks to everyone for all the help.
By the way, broke the rotor on my 48 Willys this weekend, fixed it with
Duct tape to get home.
Love old engines.
Dave