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jahearne
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Post by jahearne » Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:47 pm

You're right, it doesn't make sense. It's been mentioned that if you squirt oil in the cylinders during a compression test and the number are higher after the oil then it is a good indication that the rings are not sealing - the lower half is bad.

Are you going to do another compression test?

A compression test isn't always fool proof. I bought a rebuilt motor that had 170 lbs in each cylinder but I couldn't get it to run for the life of me. Turns out the egit installed solid lifters with non-adjustable rocker arms, so the valves were not closing all the way.

Do you know if you're getting proper spark and fuel? Fuel's easy just remove the spark arrester and open the thottles a few times; you should see a small squirt a gas in each barrel.
John & Wendy

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Post by Wood Commander » Fri Mar 27, 2009 6:48 pm

You should have changed the oil before vigorously spinning the engine over to do a compression check. However, that woulld not be catastrophic. Nor will lighter oil help an engine start that doesn't want to turn over and start.

A worn out lower end would not cause an engine to not turn over, it would just be worn.
A spun bearing would lock up an engine but that is highly unlikely unless the engine was running at a fairly decent speed, got hot from oil starvation and tightened up, and this would happen over a time span and be noticeable.
I suppose you could have a locked up wrist pin, but that's not too common.
A broken oil pump drive or broken timing chain or gears/valves hitting the tops of the pistons is possible, but probably not probable since the rpm's never actually got very high yet.

If you were able to spin the engine over to do a compression check, it was spinning freely at that time and was good enough to have most or all of it's parts moving at that time. So something happened in the meantime, probably something simple.

I would think that you probably just ended up with hydraulic lock somehow. Did you run pressurized water to the water inlets? Did you make sure to get all of the oil out of the cylinders from the compression check?

Q' are pretty notorious for freezing the intake manifold freeze plug out and filling the engine with water if not properly winterized.
Also, exhaust manifolds on an old boat are always suspect for leaking water back into an exhaust manifold and causing hydraulic lock.

Pull all the plugs, turn it over and see if and what comes out of the holes.
If you have water, you are at least going to have to drain the cylinders and crankcase.

Remember, if you have fuel, spark at the proper time, and air, it HAS to run.

At about this point, you might be at almost 1/2 of the way to the same amount of work as just pulling the engines, and on a wrecked time schedule as well. And you have at least one transmission issue. Isn't old boating fun?
Let's hope you have just a simple problem, you might be able to get her going yet.
But be warned, if you have coolant in the bottom of the engine, you need to be very careful to remedy that problem, especially if antifreeze is involved. Bearings HATE antifreeze.
Bret

1953 35' Commander "Adonis III"

1970 23' lancer project

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NoGin
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Post by NoGin » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:47 pm

I spoke with another local mechanic who knows the older boats well. I explained everything to him and he picked up on something that I didn't even think of and neglected to mention to you guys.

When we did the compression check the plugs were pulled. When the mechanic re-installed the plugs and wires he said the wires were not in correctly so he changed the order. The mechanic I spoke to today said that he probably didn't account for the starboard motor reverse timing.

Can this be it?

The mechanic who has been doing the tests said not to change the fluids and also that we didn't need to run water to the motors if we were only running them for a minute or 2 so I didn't do that.

I guess this isn't good huh?


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Post by Wood Commander » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:16 pm

The wrong plug wire location is a possibility, but probably wouldn't totally lock up the engine. It would be more prone to make it crank hard but still turn over, and probably backfire up through the carb.

If the wiring order is wrong, it shouldn't actually hurt the engine unless you had a timing chain ready to break anyway or something like that. And even then, you would have to have a pretty big boom in order to do that kind of damage.

For just a very short fire up, not having water shouldn't hurt anything unless you have rubber or plastic water pump impellors. But I wouldn't run for long at all like that anyway.
Bret

1953 35' Commander "Adonis III"

1970 23' lancer project

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NoGin
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Post by NoGin » Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:47 am

So I am going to take it over from here and trust my instincts. You guys have all given me great guidance so I should be able to figure this out on my own and not pay a mechanic.

The mechanic didn't use the boats electrical system to power the engines up. He attached a remote starter button to the starter and ground. Should I buy one of these tools or should I use the boats electrical? For some reason I don't get any power to the helm. I think it's because the mechanic only attached the primary to the starter which goes to the block. There ar2 2 or 3 other wires right next to the starter that aren't attached which I am assuming goes to the main electronics. Can anyone enlighten me here?

Thanks for all the great advice guys! Please keep it coming!
:D
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Wood Commander
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Post by Wood Commander » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:46 am

I would imagine that the other wires will power up the "electrical" system when they all get hooked up again.

Remote start buttons are great tools when working in an engine room or under a hood. You don't have to leave the work area to operate the ignition switch. And sometimes you want to be right there when the engine turns over, not having to run down from the helm area. Also, they are good for doing small bumps or jogs while adjusting points, valves or performing other tasks.

I meant for my advice to be to change the oil after lubing up the top end with kroil, and turning it over by hand to get everything moving and expell all of the kroil and possible debris out of the cylinders.

Then before turning it over fast with the starter, and definately before running it, change out the old, dirty, gunky, funky, thickened up old oil and possible leaked down kroil, so as not to pump this mess all around through oil pump and engine.

This is not going to be something that hurts the engine bad or anything, but it would just be better all around to be circulating new oil whenever you are cranking the engine over. Especially in an engine that has been sitting unused, and with the carb removed while it has been sitting in storage.

Old oil has acids in it from the combustion process and ring blow- by, that deteriorates the oil and is not good for bearings and rings.
And there is dirt in the old oil and it thickens up and attracts and holds moisture and loses lubricity as it gets older, especially with the acids when it has been sitting for long periods of time. This is why they always tell you to change the oil in any vehicle that is going to be stored for any period of time.
Bret

1953 35' Commander "Adonis III"

1970 23' lancer project

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NoGin
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Post by NoGin » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:36 am

He had the wires bass-akwards! I cant find a remote starter button, however.... I may not need one.

My wife and I decided to sell her and move on to a newer boat with a true need for "TLC." Not a rebuild. Our Chris is a GEM. A true diamond in the rough!

We are looking for a good home for her with someone who is boat savvy and capable of working on her and getting her to the condition she deserves.

If the right person does not come along I will dismantle the bridge and transport her to my house where I will shrink wrap her and slowly work on her. I do not have the know how to do this, but I will learn.

Anyone interested please email me at: [email protected]
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NoGin
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Post by NoGin » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:37 am

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J. William Tarbrake
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Post by J. William Tarbrake » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:11 am

Come on No Gin, you are just starting to enjoy the joys of antique boat restoration.Don'T give up now! Plus you haven't spent nearly enough money yet. We usually don't give up and abandon a project until we have spent at least 20 grand.
J. William Tarbrake
1967 Chris Craft 40' Constellation
"Cats Meow"

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NoGin
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Post by NoGin » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:18 pm

Actually I went out and bought another boat. I decided that the Chris is truly a restoration project and will take a lot more time than I thought. I bought a new boat that needs no restoration so I can enjoy boating right away.

Like I said, if the right person doesn't come around and want to buy the Chris, I will block her and work on her over time.
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jahearne
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Post by jahearne » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:51 pm

Score! what kind of boat did you get?
John & Wendy

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NoGin
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Post by NoGin » Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:20 pm

Well it was a friend of a friend of a friend ....

1987 Thompson Daytona 300 29' (the next year was the same exact boat but was considered a 31' b/c they decided to count the swim platform and pulpit where in 1987 they didn't).

Documented 1 Owner maintained meticulously.
This guy was a mechanic at a big boat dealer here on LI. He factory ordered this boat to his specs. Unloaded it from the manufacturer himself. Delivered it to his house himself and has maintained it himself with no one else ever touching it. To give you an idea of how meticulous he is, he bought his own heat gun and shrink wrap and has shrink wrapped it himself in his back yard since new every season!

2 oil changes every year. Electronic ignition upgrade on and on and on. Starts up right away. Just an absolutely beautiful 22 year old boat with tons of space. Nice wide 10 foot beam. It's a great boat that I can drop in the water and enjoy with just touches I want to do and of course the up keep.

This is why we decided to sell the Chris. I love the Chris and it is truly going to be a spectacular boat. It was just not the time for me to own it. I need something I can enjoy with the fam right away with minimal up keep.
:D
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