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Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Leather, Tolex or Russaloid. Linoleum or black rubber matting. If it's in the cockpit or in the cabin, post your questions and answers here.

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Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by steve bunda » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:06 pm

Hi , I am researching the interior upholstery for my 1939 barrel , and have read all the previous posts . I have a Chris Craft Master parts list for the early 30's , but wish to get a copy of later 1936 to 42 or so.
My interest is in the Leather vs Russialoid materials. I have a number of prewar runabouts and all their hull cards are specific to Leather or Russoloid being installed. I cannot wrap my head around the the theory of boats being produced with both materials being installed in the same hull. Picture pocket of 39 barrel.
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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by Don Vogt » Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:14 pm

steve, i am not the expert here but consider this. the upholstered items come presumably from the upholstery shop, ready to plop in. the battery tie down strap, the map pocket lining, and the slings holding up the wiring, etc. are done in the course of boat construction.

A question in my mind is whether the band on the seat bottoms where the general upholstery is leather might be russaloid. Brian seems to think so.

knowing how frugal cc was, i wouldn't be surprised about them using russaloid scraps wherever possible.
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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by steve bunda » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:30 pm

My thinking is the barrel backs were just the new runabouts offered in 1939, and were not such a big deal as they became later on for collectors. Thus an offering of a new affordable runabout with Russialoid upholstery , and a upgrade offering of leather.
I could not imagine a customer picking up a custom ordered leather interior with a mix of Russialoid, but it is possible. Most of the time the wire straps in prewar boats do dot match the hull card color of the interior.
My next question is , In the factory pictures of prewar runabouts, why do some lazy backs have 3 panels, and some appear to be a complete seamless panel? I have made them 3 panel in the past, except for 3rd cockpits.

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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by Don Vogt » Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:59 pm

My sense is some of the earlier 1930's runabouts may have had a solid one piece of upholstery seat back? but i think by the mid 30's they were 3 pieces of upholstery material sewn together, with the possible exception of the small entry level models? Don't know for sure. Perhaps it is dangerous to overgeneralize on this.

There are two aspects to your comments on the barrel backs. on the one hand, these were not for the average joe. at $1,500 or so these went to the local banker, lawyer, physician, successful business man, not everyday working people. this was the price of an expensive, luxury car or in some cases a working man's house. On the other hand, I don't think people were in general accustomed to the level of luxury that you might expect in a current mercedes or whatever. There was black rubber for the flooring, pretty basic instrumentation, etc. even in the top of the line boats. Pretty spartan in a way.

I guess all of this leads me to conclude you really need to look at the evidence model by model to determine what was done.
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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by Greg Wallace » Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:00 am

1940-41 Material Specs for 23 and 27 custom both call for a mix of genuine and imitation leather. 27 calls for significantly more suggesting that the upholstered ceilings may have been covered with it. We found the storage pocket liners in a very original 23 to be imitation.

I would speculate that if Chris Craft was willing to put imitation in their top of the line then the lesser examples would be treated no better.

I suspect there were multiple issues including cost, workability, and perhaps durability/resistance to moisture that might have contributed.

Steve, the liner material in your posted pic has the look of imitation looking at the weave pattern.
Greg Wallace 23 Custom 22166 former Chris-Craft dealer Russells Point, Oh.

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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by steve bunda » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:13 am

Thanks Greg , I do not have the hull card for my 1939 , and only have the pocket material to go by. My thoughts are to upholster the boat completely with the Russialoid. Paul is making up the new Burgundy material for me. \
Any one have original interior pictures of 1939 barrel that could show a pattern in the material? Man made of leather?
steve

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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by Greg Wallace » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:27 am

I think the 19's had leather as standard unless ordered special. You might want to check around.. the maroon leather and vinyl might be out there already. I think it was called Spanish maroon but I'm not sure. Someone will chime in and confirm I'm sure.

I always felt the 19s best epitomized the torpedo design and were proportionately the best looking of the barrels.
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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by Don Vogt » Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:57 am

Steve, somehow my recent reply didnt seem to make it into this thread. Lost in cyberspace?

In any event, what i said was that, as greg notes, I believe the 19 custom came standard in leather.

when i restored my 38 17 foot, it had originally used spanish grain maroon russaloid like your pocket picture. since no russaloid materials were then available, i used MBBW cc pre-war dark red leather. Very similar in look, but is a much richer material than russaloid. I gather some are now reproducing a russaloid like material but I havent seen any. Leather is much nicer; more expensive and perhaps wont wear as well, but if one is going to all this trouble, a few thousand more for leather isnt that big a deal in the scheme of things.

Those are my thoughts for what it is worth.
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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by steve bunda » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:30 pm

I am ok with putting in leather, but just want to see some proof that it was the standard material. You could get a 19 footer with a K engine to save cost in a barrel back. Would also like to see some pictures and reports from other restorers and or boat owners. Maybe some factory info would be nice . I have checked all the usual sites .

thanks, steve

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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by Don Vogt » Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:08 pm

Steve, please check out the archives here. there are typically catalogues for the various models going back into the 30's and they list the standard equipment. Yes, i believe the K was the standard engine (although i think most came with a larger M engine.) I dont believe i have ever heard of one coming with russaloid, although it is possible. Did you check out Don Ayers barrelback.com web site that has picture and other information. There is info around. good luck.
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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by Greg Wallace » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:20 am

Factory literature from the day indicates "Leather" as standard for this model.
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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by maritimeclassics » Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:43 am

IMG_20170110_083357256.jpg
I posted this to the other thread. This is the 23' Barrel Back but it does show that a little imitation leather was used in 40 and 4. Also the hydem was imitation leather. I went through all I have for 39-42 and this is the only thing that I have. I'm almost positive your boat came with imitation leather in the pockets and the hydem. That's the way I would do it if I had it in my shop.
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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by steve bunda » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:20 pm

Looks good, I would love to see the same factory information on the 19 foot barrels , all years . I just want to have documentation in the portfolio to back up the interior choice. Does any one have a build sheet for a 1939 19 foot barrel that they can post? I would like to see a few of them.

Thanks , steve

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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by Brian Robinson » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:15 pm

Steve,

The O'Mara pages for the 1941-42 19' show the same thing as Mike Green posted. Unfortunately we do not have these prior to 1941, with exception of the 1940 16' SRB and 27' Custom (both show the same info regarding the upholstery). I have been through all of the hull cards of all 146 1939 19-footers and all but six state "leather maroon" or "maroon leather." #48643 had its complete original interior carefully disassembled a few years ago showing what was actually leather and what was not (side pockets, welt, base, cushion straps I think...)
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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by clarks » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:06 pm

I couldnt find any leather on my 39 so I had Paul make up some yinyl to match what came out of my 39

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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by Don Danenberg » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:52 pm

Ya Think?

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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by maritimeclassics » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:44 am

Don Danenberg wrote:Ya Think?
Again, I don't get it??? Do you have something to add to help, because we are all here to learn.
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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by Ed Andrews » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:22 pm

maritimeclassics wrote:
Don Danenberg wrote:Ya Think?
Again, I don't get it??? Do you have something to add to help, because we are all here to learn.
it looks like someone hacked his account.
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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by Don Danenberg » Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:04 pm

#48547 showed GEN leather (as in Genuine) on the hull card, the first one.

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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by maritimeclassics » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:11 am

Good information, so before hull #48547 and prior (48500-48547) they were all Russaloid material. Don, have you found after hull #48547 the use of any other material other then leather in the the pockets, seat bases or hydem?
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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by Greg Wallace » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:59 am

Fascinating, Don. What was the upholstery type noted on the 47 hulls previous to 48547?
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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by Don Danenberg » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:15 pm

Well Mike,
I don't know that they "were all Russaloid material"? Although, the ceiling pockets were different than all the rest?
As I believe I showed you a couple years ago, my #48510 was completely upholstered with "US Rubber - Naugahyde" (patented in 1936 and referred to by Chris-Craft as "Im. Leather"). I had 3, old-time, tack-spitting, upholsterers disassemble sections of it. None found any other tack holes besides those marked and removed. Steel where hidden, copper where left exposed on seat-back and seat-bottom edges. I have many photos and even one video of their work.

Prior to #48547, the hull cards noted; 'Spanich Moron', perhaps that guy just couldn't spell?

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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by Don Vogt » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:41 pm

Who needs unpleasantness coupled with unhelpfulness?

Steve, If you go to the archives and search 1939 Chris-Craft Full Line Brochure, there is a table that shows the default options for the various models. As to seating, the 19' custom indicates leather. Some other models use the period term "leatherette." This is not to say that there are no 19' customs that had "leatherette", but only by reviewing the hull card or original upholstery, if still there, would one know for sure as to any particular boat.

If there is other actual evidence out there that contradicts this brochure in general, it would be helpful if it were shared with the members.
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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by steve bunda » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:51 pm

I have searched this site and find it cumbersome , Don V. if you could take the time and bring the information forward to the string , I would appreciate it .

steve

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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by Don Vogt » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:55 pm

unfortunately, steve, it is cumbersome, and that is why it is being revamped. I wish I knew how to bring the page up and post it. If someone else can do it that would be great. There is really a wealth of info in the archives. One of the many problems is that there is no way to separate all the brass bell material, from original cc material, when one does a search (at least that i know of.)
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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by steve bunda » Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:44 pm

I understand, but to keep the flow of information and to have a conversation in real time, sending people to a archive is not helpful at all. I cannot find what I am looking for in the archive and will not use it anymore, thus to keep strings alive, lets quit sending people there, :wink: and just post things to the discussion we can see. My 2 cents.
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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by Don Danenberg » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:28 pm

So really,
Don Vogt,
You demand all the answers that do not exist?

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Re: Prewar master parts 1936 t0 42

Post by Don Danenberg » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:50 pm

Look,
I wasn't there 79-years ago, but not many who post here were?
All I can really report is that #48510 had its upholstery disassembled by professional upholsterers, 2 of the 3 now retired, and no other tack holes found? All Remnants show "US Rubber - Naugahyde", patented in 1936. No evidence of Genuine Leather, not even the hull card. The hull card, by the way, is not the BSO "Boat Shipping Order", and is not even a build sheet order, it is basically a 'check-out' sheet, dated with the delivery date and destination.

The following is NOT for the 19-barrelback (the only "Materials Specifications" report, signed by O'Mara, we have for the 19-barrelback is dated 12-8-40, and only applies to the bull-nosed, fold-down-windshield, Aqua-Marine Leather, model, '41-'42).

This is for the 1942, 17', "Special Runabout". This page shows what was 'specified' for this model, and only part of the Upholstering section, page 37 (pages 17 to 39 available).

It calls for "Im. Leather", Maroon Spanish, #M270, #20/20, #6000, size 50", 7-1/4 yards.
Note that it also calls for MOSS (as in Spanish Moss) for padding, not the "horse-hair" we have seen written about lately. If you have some original padding, spread it out and look closely, if it 'branches' it is Moss, not horsehair.
Note also that it calls for both Copper and Steel tacks.

I spent 5-days (three different trips) looking at the micro-film reels at the MM, CC archives and maybe saw 15% of the reels. Somebody needs to spend more time there to find the rest of the "Materials Specifications" reports that Joe Morrison says he turned over to the MM in 1986.
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